Are There Secret Geniuses Working for Governments?

  • Thread starter fellupahill
  • Start date
In summary, there are likely some genius mathematicians and physicists working on their fields, but it's likely that not many people know about it. It's also possible to become a genius through dedication and hard work.
  • #1
fellupahill
56
0
Are there any rain man status geniuses currently working on any fields in physics?

I mean how often does someone get categorized a genius? Is there a super genius rank?

Seems like they would be quite valuable. If any were discovered in certain countries they might even be kidnapped and extorted. The can imagine the US paying geniuses nicely to come work for them and in that case if they were working on anything important then it their employment and even existence might be kept secret. To anyone's knowledge do governments recruit geniuses pretty heavily?
 
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  • #2
The official definition of "genius" is someone with an IQ over 130. That's two standard devations above the mean, or about 3% of the world's population. Ergo, there are over 200 million geniuses in the world, assuming the above is true. Given that, it's highly likely that at least some of them are working in a physics field.
 
  • #3
fellupahill said:
Is there a super genius rank?

Yes. But to achieve super genius rank, go through many challenges you must. After sea of doom and the river of terrors you faced, a council of geniuses will decide.

Good luck, my padawan.
 
  • #4
fellupahill said:
Were the geniuses at?

Were the geniuses at what? At the party? At the ballgame?
 
  • #5
They're in my house.
 
  • #6
Jimmy Snyder said:
They're in my house.

Are you having a party or a ballgame?
 
  • #7
berkeman said:
Are you having a party or a ballgame?
Can't talk now. I'm being kidnapped and extorted.
 
  • #8
Jimmy Snyder said:
Can't talk now. I'm being kidnapped and extorted.
How many toothpicks did the waitress drop on the floor, Jimmy?
 
  • #9
246 on the floor. Yeah. And 4 left in the box. Yeah.
 
  • #10
Jimmy Snyder said:
246 on the floor. Yeah. And 4 left in the box. Yeah.
I'm not wearing my underwear.
 
  • #11
turbo said:
I'm not wearing my underwear.

OK, not really something I wanted to know... :uhh:
 
  • #12
fellupahill said:
I mean how often does someone get categorized a genius? Is there a super genius rank?

Some good strategies are
* Have big hair and a wild facial expression.
* Do at least one thing in your lifetime that is generally agreed to be useful.
* File lots of patents that nobody can understand (filing patents is easier than getting papers published, because patents doesn't have to make any sense).
* Make sure your name can be linked to some conspiracy theories.

Unfortunately, the full genius effect doesn't usually kick in till a few years after you are dead :smile:
 
  • #13
I get my boxer shorts at K-Mart in Cincinnati.
 
  • #14
AlephZero said:
Unfortunately, the full genius effect doesn't usually kick in till a few years after you are dead :smile:

So: fake your death and watch everybody call you genius!
 
  • #15
micromass said:
So: fake your death and watch everybody call you genius!

That's brilliant! Maybe even super brilliant! :biggrin:



(Uh-oh, run for it!) :bugeye:
 
  • #16
turbo said:
I get my boxer shorts at K-Mart in Cincinnati.

I didn't know you vas efer in Zinzinnati.
 
  • #17
AlephZero said:
Some good strategies are
* Have big hair and a wild facial expression.
* Do at least one thing in your lifetime that is generally agreed to be useful.
* File lots of patents that nobody can understand (filing patents is easier than getting papers published, because patents doesn't have to make any sense).
* Make sure your name can be linked to some conspiracy theories.

Unfortunately, the full genius effect doesn't usually kick in till a few years after you are dead :smile:

Call this the Tesla Effect.
 
  • #18
Wearing a scarf at all times makes you a genius points +10.
 
  • #19
micromass said:
OK, not really something I wanted to know... :uhh:

But it's something that you need to know. Need.
 
  • #20
I paid Chinese farmers to grind my Genius XP to level 50, qualifying me a super genius elite.
They stole my +3 Calculator, was worth it though.
 
  • #21
Char. Limit said:
The official definition of "genius" is someone with an IQ over 130. That's two standard devations above the mean, or about 3% of the world's population. Ergo, there are over 200 million geniuses in the world, assuming the above is true. Given that, it's highly likely that at least some of them are working in a physics field.
Good point. And given that a person has such a potential, then I think that what will eventually, maybe, make them a recognized genius in a certain field is simply the passionate pursuance of something or other. It might be science or math or art or music, etc. Whatever. Like Forrest Gump's mom might have said ... genius is as genius does. Maybe even without an IQ over 130.
 
  • #22
Char. Limit said:
The official definition of "genius" is someone with an IQ over 130. That's two standard devations above the mean, or about 3% of the world's population. Ergo, there are over 200 million geniuses in the world, assuming the above is true. Given that, it's highly likely that at least some of them are working in a physics field.

Kinda lowering the standards, eh? Last I heard genius was a person with an IQ of 162 and a person of 130-40 is intelligent.
 
  • #23
phoenix:\\ said:
Kinda lowering the standards, eh? Last I heard genius was a person with an IQ of 162 and a person of 130-40 is intelligent.
There are lots of people with high IQs that have achieved nothing. The label of genius is bestowed upon people who have achieved significant results in a particular field, and I think that this can probably be shown to be not necessarily a function of an inordinately high IQ.
 
  • #24
phoenix:\\ said:
Kinda lowering the standards, eh? Last I heard genius was a person with an IQ of 162 and a person of 130-40 is intelligent.

Even if you pick an IQ of 162, which is about four standard deviations above the mean, you're probably going to have multiple millions of people, just because of how vast the sample is.
 
  • #25
phoenix:\\ said:
... a person of 130-40 is intelligent.

I don't even qualify as intelligent :frown: (:smile:)


Unintelligent
Adjective: Having or showing a low level of intelligence: "a good-natured but unintelligent boy".
 
  • #26
fellupahill said:
To anyone's knowledge do governments recruit geniuses pretty heavily?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Geniuses in government, good one!
 
  • #27
If no universities accept me for a PhD position, I'm going to work for the government
 
  • #28
phoenix:\\ said:
Kinda lowering the standards, eh? Last I heard genius was a person with an IQ of 162 and a person of 130-40 is intelligent.
That doesn't sound quite right. But I suppose it depends on your definition of 'genius'. Ignoring private entities that define the term for their own use, there is no commonly accepted IQ threshold or other objective criteria for 'genius'.

But there are some commonly accepted meanings for IQ scores. And using those, [itex] \mu [/itex] = 100 and [itex] \sigma [/itex] = 15, we can approximate the fraction of the population at or above a certain score using:

[tex] \frac{1}{\sqrt{2 \pi} \sigma} \int_{IQ}^{\infty} e^-{\frac{\left( x - \mu \right)^2}{2 \sigma^2}} dx [/tex]

[tex] = \frac{1}{15 \sqrt{2 \pi}} \int_{IQ}^{\infty} e^-{\frac{\left( x - 100 \right)^2}{(2) 15^2}} dx[/tex]

thus for an IQ score of 162,

[tex] \frac{1}{15 \sqrt{2 \pi}} \int_{162}^{\infty} e^-{\frac{\left( x - 100 \right)^2}{(2) 15^2}} dx \approx 0.000017877[/tex]

That corresponds to about 1 in every 56 thousand people have an IQ greater than or equal to 162. But IQ tests are not written or tested with large enough control sample size for data points that large to be statistically meaningful. 162 is outside the range of meaningful interpretation for existing IQ tests.

Keep in mind that of the entire world population of people that are physically and mentally capable of taking an IQ test, half of them have an IQ of less than 100.

By the way, for what it matters, I find IQ tests to be pretty worthless.
 
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  • #29
It's often a case of comparing apples and oranges.

My analogy is that the different subject areas are akin
to the different types of martial arts. A subgenius,
but highly intelligent person could be a brown belt.

A first-order genius could be a 1st degree black belt,
with more advanced geniuses being higher degreed
black belts.

A person can be a genius in one of the areas of science,
or even of one branch, of say, mathematics, but be below
highly intelligent in other branches.

For instance, a person could be a genius in high school algebra
(a black belt) and yet be a novice in elementary statistics
(a yellow belt).

Or, between scientific disciplines, they could be compared to the
different kinds of martial arts. For example, a person could have
a brown belt in physics (astronomy for example), a black belt in
mathematics (1st year calculus for example), and a green belt
in English (grammar for example).
 
  • #30
Or, between scientific disciplines, they could be compared to the
different kinds of martial arts. For example, a person could have
a brown belt in physics (astronomy for example), a black belt in
mathematics (1st year calculus for example), and a green belt
in English (grammar for example).

This whole conversation would be so much easier if we had an existing way of comparing performances between students in school
 
  • #31
There is one in my discrete math class; Always reading different advanced math books; Remembers and understands everything he reads; Pretty amazing.
 
  • #32
jreelawg said:
There is one in my discrete math class; Always reading different advanced math books; Remembers and understands everything he reads; Pretty amazing.
I think memory is the key. Or, if not the key, at least an extremely important element. I have no idea how geniuses remember as well as they do. Apparently, something is persisting in their brains longer than wrt ordinary people. World class chess players, mathematicians, musicians, philosophers, physicists, etc., seem to have this ability. This sort of memory capability sets the stage for making connections that ordinary people have difficulty in making.

But, again, I think that the discerning factor is the passionate, dilligent pursuance of, and commitment to, a specific goal. For example, Bobby Fischer was considered a chess genius. From the time he was about 7 years old until his early 30's he, reportedly, spent about 12 hours a day studying chess positions. A passionate, dilligent commitment to a specific goal.

I also suppose that people of more or less ordinary IQ have emerged as geniuses in one field or another. Primarily due to their passionate, dilligent commitment to do the work required to improve wrt their chosen field.

So, I think there is hope for anyone in the sub 150 (even sub 130) IQ population to become ... an acknowledged genius at something.
 
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  • #33
ThomasT said:
I think memory is the key. Or, if not the key, at least an extremely important element. I have no idea how geniuses remember as well as they do. Apparently, something is persisting in their brains longer than wrt ordinary people. World class chess players, mathematicians, musicians, philosophers, physicists, etc., seem to have this ability. This sort of memory capability sets the stage for making connections that ordinary people have difficulty in making.
There is a lot of study regarding various kinds of exceptional memory. To be honest as has been said IQ is a fairly worthless measure of intelligence, let alone if they are a good measure of what a "genius" is. Unless anyone knows of a thorough definition calling someone a genius is just a vague, subjective label we attach to people with exceptional (generally non-physical) skill in an area. A polyglot could be called a genius but be horrendous at maths, an avant-garde artist can be called a genius but in a completely different way to Richard Feynman etc.
 
  • #34
Ryan_m_b said:
There is a lot of study regarding various kinds of exceptional memory.
Thanks for the link ... interesting.

Ryan_m_b said:
To be honest as has been said IQ is a fairly worthless measure of intelligence, let alone if they are a good measure of what a "genius" is.
Yes, IQ doesn't seem to be a necessarily discerning factor. And the word, "intelligence", seems only to be relevant wrt specific measurable criteria. Back to Forrest Gump's mom ... "stupid is as stupid does".

Ryan_m_b said:
Unless anyone knows of a thorough definition calling someone a genius is just a vague, subjective label we attach to people with exceptional (generally non-physical) skill in an area.
That seems to be how the term is used.

Ryan_m_b said:
A polyglot could be called a genius but be horrendous at maths, an avant-garde artist can be called a genius but in a completely different way to Richard Feynman etc.
Yeah, artists (I'm supposing you're referring primarily to visual artists) are the most difficult to assess. Eg., some people think that Van Gogh's stuff is the work of a genius. To me (and I've seen several of the originals) it just looks like the work of an ordinary, albeit perhaps emotionally disturbed, not especially talented person.

On the other hand, I never cease to be amazed at the abilities of world class concert musicians. Especially pianists. But again, these 'genius' skills don't happen overnight. There are usually decades of daily (many hours) practice behind it.
 
  • #35
Richard Feynman scored 125.

The real question is why a bunch of grown men would obsess over the results each other got on a test designed to decide which class french kindergartners should be in.
 
<h2>1. What is a secret genius?</h2><p>A secret genius is someone who possesses exceptional intelligence and skills, but their identity and work are kept confidential by the government or organization they work for.</p><h2>2. How do secret geniuses benefit the government?</h2><p>Secret geniuses can provide valuable expertise and insights in various fields such as technology, science, and national security. They can also develop innovative solutions to complex problems and give the government a competitive advantage.</p><h2>3. How are secret geniuses recruited by the government?</h2><p>The government often recruits secret geniuses through specialized programs or agencies. They may also identify and approach individuals who have a proven track record of exceptional abilities and offer them positions within the government.</p><h2>4. Are secret geniuses only found in the government?</h2><p>No, secret geniuses can also be found in private organizations, research institutions, and universities. However, their work may still be confidential and not widely known to the public.</p><h2>5. Is it ethical for the government to keep secret geniuses' work confidential?</h2><p>The ethics of keeping secret geniuses' work confidential can be debated. On one hand, it may be necessary for national security or to protect sensitive information. On the other hand, it may limit the potential impact and recognition of the individual's work. Ultimately, it depends on the specific circumstances and the individual's consent.</p>

1. What is a secret genius?

A secret genius is someone who possesses exceptional intelligence and skills, but their identity and work are kept confidential by the government or organization they work for.

2. How do secret geniuses benefit the government?

Secret geniuses can provide valuable expertise and insights in various fields such as technology, science, and national security. They can also develop innovative solutions to complex problems and give the government a competitive advantage.

3. How are secret geniuses recruited by the government?

The government often recruits secret geniuses through specialized programs or agencies. They may also identify and approach individuals who have a proven track record of exceptional abilities and offer them positions within the government.

4. Are secret geniuses only found in the government?

No, secret geniuses can also be found in private organizations, research institutions, and universities. However, their work may still be confidential and not widely known to the public.

5. Is it ethical for the government to keep secret geniuses' work confidential?

The ethics of keeping secret geniuses' work confidential can be debated. On one hand, it may be necessary for national security or to protect sensitive information. On the other hand, it may limit the potential impact and recognition of the individual's work. Ultimately, it depends on the specific circumstances and the individual's consent.

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