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Dash-IQ
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Do all electric motor's follow Faraday's law and Lorentz? Is it safe to say generalize that statement?
Faraday and Lenz laws are general Laws of Nature - so everything has to follow them.Do all electric motor's follow Faraday's law and Lorentz?
What statement?Is it safe to say generalize that statement?
Simon Bridge said:Faraday and Lenz laws are general Laws of Nature - so everything has to follow them.
"Lorentz" usually refers to the transformations of special relativity - which is also a general Law of Nature - everything is subject to the transformations though they are usually thought of as applying to space-time rather than the objects in it.
Faraday's Law has to be modified for relativity though.
Simon Bridge said:Further: a machine which exploits Faraday's and Lenz's laws to generate work via electric currents and magnets would pretty much be the definition of an electric motor.
Thus the answer to your question appears to be "yes" - pretty much by definition.
Simon Bridge said:What statement?
You have only posed questions.
Um OK. The central task in physics, and the whole point of science, is to discover general laws of nature - these are the rules that do not depend on your point of view. That kind of rule will apply to everyone.Way above my level of understanding and my basic question... could you simplify and explain this a bit more if possible? I got interested!
Simon Bridge said:They are not quite complete though - they have to be modified for the case of very small objects or very high speeds. The modifications are called Quantum Mechanics and Special Relativity. These are really big subjects in their own right...
Simon Bridge said:The laws apply to pretty much everything you can see and touch - so they are very general.
Dash-IQ said:Wait, aren't they only applied with systems that have a conductor, moving in a changing magnetic field? Or vice versa?
How are they applied in everything? See here... is my limitation of understanding.
sophiecentaur said:If you want to jump in with both feet, you could look at this Hyperphysics link or, for a bit more description , this[/PLAIN] wiki link.
Description of magnetic phenomena like the motor effect is only a part of what Maxwell tell us.
Maxwells equations cover everything that is electromagnetic in nature - this includes light.Dash-IQ said:Wait, aren't they only applied with systems that have a conductor, moving in a changing magnetic field? Or vice versa?
How are they applied in everything? See here... is my limitation of understanding.
Again: define "electric motor".Dash-IQ said:@Simon Bridge, the motion produced in all electric motors is due to Lorentz force = IL x B ?
Simon Bridge said:Again: define "electric motor".
Simon Bridge said:All those would be systems that turn electrical input to mechanical output that does not rely on the Lorentz force; but I don't think those're what you had in mind.
These are well studied examples.Dash-IQ said:Yet very interesting. It would be nice to study how work is done for those systems.
And understanding the force related in converting one form of energy to another.
Simon Bridge said:These are well studied examples.
However, it is unhelpful to study them in terms of forces.
Energy systems are best studied in terms of energy rather than force.
You have to be very careful about the force methods - it is easy to get mislead.
You can have energy in fields without forces.cabraham said:energy involves force. How do you study in terms of one w/o the other?
DaleSpam said:You can have energy in fields without forces.
Naturally - but OP has digressed a slightly since then - having obtained an answer to the original question. See post #12.cabraham said:Of course you can but the OP question was specifically about motors. To spin the rotor force/torque is needed
Agreed. In the context of motors you have to consider the work performed on matter, which involves forces. Your statement was just a little overly broad in general, but I agree that it is reasonable in this context.cabraham said:Of course you can but the OP question was specifically about motors.
It makes its more complicated... please do explain.DaleSpam said:You can have energy in fields without forces.
Here is a good page on the topic: http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/em/lectures/node89.htmlDash-IQ said:How can Force = 0, while Energy = x. I'm troubled here... how can a field have energy in general, like when a magnetic field or electric field store energy, while forces are zero?
Yes, all electric motors follow the two fundamental laws of electricity: Ohm's law and Faraday's law. Ohm's law states that the current through a conductor between two points is directly proportional to the voltage across the two points. Faraday's law states that the induced electromotive force (EMF) in a closed loop is directly proportional to the rate of change of the magnetic flux through the loop.
Ohm's law relates the current, voltage, and resistance in an electrical circuit. It is often used to calculate the amount of current flowing through an electric motor, as well as the amount of resistance in the motor's components.
Faraday's law is essential for understanding the operation of electric motors. It explains how the changing magnetic field created by the motor's electromagnets induces a current in the motor's conductors, which then produces the motor's rotational motion.
While these two laws apply to the majority of electric motors, there can be exceptions in certain cases. For example, some specialized motors, such as brushless DC motors, operate using different principles and may not follow Ohm's law or Faraday's law in the same way as traditional electric motors.
The two laws play a crucial role in the design and operation of electric motors. By understanding and applying these laws, engineers can optimize the performance and efficiency of electric motors, resulting in more efficient and reliable machines.