How many cycles until pressure decreases k times?

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The problem involves an air pump extracting gas from a vessel of volume V while maintaining constant temperature. The goal is to determine how many cycles it takes for the pressure to decrease by a factor of k. The discussion revolves around the application of the ideal gas law and the mathematical relationships derived from it.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the number of cycles using the ideal gas law and expressions for the change in the number of moles of gas after each cycle. Some participants explore alternative mathematical forms and approximations to arrive at a different expression for the number of cycles.

Discussion Status

Participants are examining the mathematical derivations and exploring different interpretations of how the number of moles changes with each cycle. There is an ongoing discussion about the assumptions made in the calculations, particularly regarding the relationship between pressure and volume after each cycle.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of different processes (isothermal vs. adiabatic) that could affect the calculations, and participants are questioning the assumptions related to the behavior of the gas during the pumping cycles.

Yegor
Messages
147
Reaction score
2
Air pump is pumping out a gas from a vessel (vessel's volume is V).
After each cycle i it pumps out dV.
Gas is ideal. T=Const.
After how much cycles pressure P will decrease k times?

Here is my work.

PV = nRT
Initially n=n(0)

After each cycle n decreases (1-dV/V) times.
So, after x cycles n(x)=n(0)(1-dV/V)^x
k=p(0)/p(x)=n(0)/n(x)
n(x)/n(0)=(1-dV/V)^x
So x =ln(1/k)/ln(1-dV/V)

But the answer is x=ln(k)/ln(1+dV/V)

As I understand, they assume that after each cycle n decreases 1/(1+dV/V) times. In this way i really receive x=ln(k)/ln(1+dV/V)
I don't understand it. Help me please.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Has anybody any ideas?
 
They have done some mathematics with x =ln(1/k)/ln(1-dV/V) to arrive at a more nice looking answer.

x= -ln (k) / ln (1- dV/V)
= ln (k) / ln [(1-dV/V)] ^-1

now, [(1-dV/V)] ^-1 = 1 + dV/V (approximately)

so, x = ln (k) / ln [(1+dV/V)
 
Each cycle corresponds to a T=const. process. (in another version of this problem the pumping process is very fast and a the transformation would correspond to an adiabatic process - all you have to do is to add the exponent [tex]\gamma[/tex] to the equations below). After the first cycle the air volume increases from V to V+dV and the pressure decreases at [tex]p_1[/tex]. You have
[tex]p_0\cdot V=p_1\cdot (V+dV)[/tex]
After the first cycle, the pump takes out the air from dV, and you get again
[tex]p_1=p_0 \frac{V}{V+dv}[/tex]
In the second cycle,
[tex]p_1\cdot V=p_2\cdot (V+dV)[/tex]
and
[tex]p_2=p_1 \frac{V}{V+dv}=p_0 \frac{V^2}{(V+dv)^2}[/tex]

and so on...

[tex]p_n=p_{n-1} \frac{V}{V+dv}=p_0 \frac{V^n}{(V+dv)^n}[/tex]
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 116 ·
4
Replies
116
Views
8K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
Replies
49
Views
4K
Replies
17
Views
2K