A Puzzle: Find an Ellipse Tangent to a Circle

In summary, the problem at hand involves finding a tangent ellipse for a given circle, with given parameters such as the radius of the circle, eccentricity of the ellipse, and distance from the center of the circle to the tangent lines of the ellipse. The problem also requires finding the semiaxes of the ellipse, the center of the circle, the point of tangency, and the slope of the circle/ellipse at the point of tangency. The equations for the ellipse, circle, normal line, and 45 degree line have been derived, and relationships between the unknowns have been established. However, the presence of the eccentricity makes the problem more challenging, and a solution has not yet been found. The possibility of a range of
  • #1
quantumdude
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
5,584
24
I was asked to look at a problem (not homework) in which a tangent ellipse is to be found for a circle. This puzzle is turning out to be more than I bargained for. See the attached image because hey, a picture's worth a thousand words.

The givens in this problem are to be the radius ##R_i## of the circle, the eccentricity ##e## of the ellipse, and the distance ##R_o## from the center of the circle to either of the lines tangent to the ellipse. I also have that the tangent ellipse is to be centered at the origin and that it has a horizontal major axis.

I am to find the semiaxes ##a## and ##b## of the ellipse, the center ##(h,k)## of the circle, the point ##\left(x_0,y_0\right)## of tangency, and the slope ##m_t## of the circle/ellipse at the point of tangency. The horizontal and vertical tangents to the ellipse are ##y=b## and ##x=a##, respectively, but I don't know exactly where they are.

I have developed a little bit of shorthand to make the equations simpler. I've let ##d=\sqrt{1-e^2}## and ##m_n=-1/m_t##. The latter is the slope of the normal line that passes through ##\left(x_0,y_0\right)##. I also noted the line that passes through ##(h,k)## and ##(a,b)## has slope 1, so I thought it could be of interest. I call it "the 45 degree line". So the equations of the ellipse, circle, normal line, and 45 degree line are, respectively:

$$\frac{x^2}{a^2}+\frac{y^2}{d^2a^2}=1$$
$$(x-h)^2+(y-k)^2=R_i^2$$
$$y=m_n(x-h)+k$$
$$y=x-a+da$$Here are the relationships that I have derived so far.

  • Because the center of the circle is to be the same distance from either of the tangent lines ##y=b## or ##x=a##, I have ##h=a-R_o## and ##k=da-R_o##.
  • Using the equation of the ellipse and its implicit derivative, I have ##x_0=\frac{a}{\sqrt{1+m_n^2d^2}}## and ##y_0=\frac{m_nd^2a}{\sqrt{1+m_n^2d^2}}##.
  • Plugging the last two relations into ##m_n=\frac{y_0-k}{x_0-h}## I obtained a 4th degree polynomial equation for ##m_n##. Only one problem: it also contains the unknown quantity ##a##. I'll post the equation if anyone really wants to see it, but it's really not necessary. Solving that equation would be the final step, and I would throw it into Maple anyway.
I feel like I'm on the verge of solving this problem. If I could just find any of the unknowns ##a,b,h,## or ##k##, I could find all of the others and this thing would be done. But I've been chasing my own tail for so long that I just can't see my way out of it. I'm hoping that a fresh pair of eyes will help. Thanks!
 

Attachments

  • Snip.JPG
    Snip.JPG
    35.1 KB · Views: 601
Mathematics news on Phys.org
  • #2
If mn = 1 are you in business?
 
  • #3
Yes, and I considered that too. If ##m_n=1## then the normal line *is* the 45-degree line, which certainly makes the math easier. However, if that's the case then there isn't a solution for every choice of ##e,R_i##, and ##R_o##. In fact I don't know if there's a solution for any choice of those variables if ##m_n=1##.
 
  • #4
Yet, mn = 1 drops out of what you've posted. Can't say I'm comfy with the implications, and wasn't up all night mulling the geometry, but it's got me going just the same.
 
  • #5
Tom Mattson said:
there isn't a solution for every choice of e,R i e,R_i, and R o R_o.
I've been confining the problem statement to a "given" circle with a "given" center, which it is not. You get to move the circle, so there is a range of eccentricity that is possible.
 
  • #6
##m_n=1## does not drop out of those equations. What does drop out is this:

##d^2\left(a-R_o\right)^2m_n^4-2d^2\left(a-R_o\right)\left(da-R_o\right)m_n^3+\left(\left(a-R_o\right)^2+d^2\left(da-R_o\right)^2-e^4a^2\right)m_n^2-2\left(a-R_o\right)\left(da-R_o\right)m_n##
##+\left(da-R_o\right)^2=0##

If I had ##a## (or ##h,k,## or ##b##, which would be just as good), I could evaluate the coefficients of this equation and chuck it into Maple to solve for ##m_n##. Eccentricity is one of the givens. That's what is making this so hard. If ##a## and ##b## were both given seperately, this would be an exercise in freshman calculus.
 
  • #7
Lost the tangent point subscript translating between equation editors. Back to the drawing board.
 

1. How do I find an ellipse tangent to a circle?

To find an ellipse tangent to a circle, you can use the geometric construction method. Draw a line tangent to the circle at a given point, and then use a compass to draw two arcs from that point, one with a radius equal to the distance from the center of the circle to the point on the tangent line, and one with a radius equal to the desired axis length of the ellipse. The intersection of these two arcs will be the center of the ellipse. Repeat this process for multiple points on the circle to get the entire ellipse.

2. What is the equation for an ellipse tangent to a circle?

The equation for an ellipse tangent to a circle is (x-h)^2/a^2 + (y-k)^2/b^2 = 1, where (h,k) is the center of the ellipse and a and b are the semi-major and semi-minor axes, respectively.

3. Can an ellipse be tangent to a circle at more than one point?

Yes, an ellipse can be tangent to a circle at more than one point. This is known as a "kissing ellipse" and is a special case where the ellipse is inscribed within the circle.

4. How does finding an ellipse tangent to a circle relate to real-world applications?

Finding an ellipse tangent to a circle can be useful in various fields such as architecture, engineering, and physics. For example, in architecture, this construction method can be used to design curved walls or windows. In engineering, it can be used to design curved roads or rail tracks. In physics, it can be used to model the orbits of planets around the sun.

5. Are there any other methods for finding an ellipse tangent to a circle?

Yes, there are other methods for finding an ellipse tangent to a circle, such as using the properties of conic sections or using calculus to find the minimum distance between the two shapes. However, the geometric construction method is the most straightforward and commonly used method.

Similar threads

Replies
4
Views
826
Replies
2
Views
305
Replies
9
Views
829
Replies
6
Views
1K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • General Math
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • General Math
Replies
4
Views
821
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
6
Views
744
Back
Top