Bathtub Vortex Pressure difference

In summary, the conversation discusses the increase in velocity of a particle in two different scenarios - one with a radial centripetal force and the other in a fluid. Both scenarios show that the increase in velocity can be explained by conservation of angular momentum. However, there is also a decrease in pressure, which is explained by a pressure gradient pointing towards the center of the vortex. This pressure gradient is necessary to maintain the circular motion of the particle. The decrease in potential energy is accounted for by this pressure gradient, and the mechanism for its development is still being studied.
  • #1
Timtam
42
0
The problem statement
upload_2016-10-17_11-10-24.png
Example 1 A single particle
I have a particle being forced by a radial centripetal force onto a smaller radius

$$l_1=m_c.v_1.r_1$$
$$L_1=L_2$$
$$L_2=m_c.v_2.r_2$$
$$m_c.v_1.r_1=m_c.v_2.r_2$$
$$v_1.r_1=v_2.r_2$$
$$v_2=v_1\frac{r_2}{r_1}$$

Its increase from ##v_1## to ##v_2## is explained by Conservation of Angular Momentum
Example 2 The bathtub vortex-A particle in a fluid

I have the same particle entering a control volume- with the same angular momentum ##L_1=m_c.v_1.r_1## as its drawn towards the drain its angular velocity increases as radius decreases ##v=\frac{1}{r}##

$$v_1=\frac{1}{r_1}$$
$$v_1.r_1=1$$
$$v_2=\frac{1}{r_2}$$
$$v_2.r_2=1$$
$$v_2.r_2=v_1.r_1$$
$$v_2=v_1\frac{r_2}{r_1}$$
So in both examples the increase in velocity is explained just by Conservation of Angular momentum

Yet applying Bernoulli's and Energy conservation the increase in velocity is explained by a proportional decrease in pressure ...and we do see a pressure decrease in a vortex . (This pressure gradient ,once created is also explained to be the radial force)

My question
If the increase in Angular velocity is explained just by Conservation of Momentum - Why does the pressure decrease?

Shouldn't such a velocity change, due to a pressure change, be in addition of the radius change and the pressure change ?

Where does that decrease in potential energy go if not into an additional increase in velocity (kinetic energy) over the one expected by Angular Momentum Conservation ?
 
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  • #2
These ideas are two sides of the same coin. At any rate, the pressure gradient pointing toward the center of the vortex must be negative because the resultant force must serve as the centripetal force that holds a particle (or fluid parcel, if you will) into its circular "orbit" around the center. If a particle takes a trajectory that causes it to move with or against that gradient, then it will speed up or slow down accordingly.
 
  • #3
Ah thanks @boneh3ad ! Ok I think I understand it , the pressure difference is purely radial so contributes only a radial acceleration , in the stream wise direction there is no pressure gradient so no acceleration (increase in velocity) in the stream wise direction. Is this correct

I am still a little unsure of what mechanism causes it to develop in the first place ??
 
  • #4
That's the general idea for a generic vortex. For a bathtub vortex, you've also got the effect of having mass being lost to the "sink' in the center. If you think about it in terms of potential flow, for example, you would have a superposed point vortex and point sink in order to model that flow. Then the flow field is a little bit more complicated but still fairly simple in the grand scheme of things.
 

1. What causes the vortex in a bathtub drain?

The vortex in a bathtub drain is caused by the pressure difference between the water inside the tub and the air outside. As the water drains, it creates a low pressure area, causing the surrounding air to rush in and create a swirling motion.

2. How does the vortex in a bathtub drain affect water flow?

The vortex in a bathtub drain can actually help to increase water flow. As the water swirls, it creates a low pressure area at the center, allowing water to drain more quickly and efficiently.

3. Is the vortex in a bathtub drain the same as a tornado or hurricane?

No, the vortex in a bathtub drain is much smaller and less powerful than a tornado or hurricane. It is simply a result of the pressure difference between the water and the surrounding air, whereas tornadoes and hurricanes are caused by atmospheric conditions.

4. Can the vortex in a bathtub drain be dangerous?

In most cases, the vortex in a bathtub drain is not dangerous. However, it is important to be cautious and not put your hand or any objects near the drain while the water is draining, as the vortex can create a strong suction force.

5. Is there a way to prevent the vortex in a bathtub drain?

There are a few ways to prevent the vortex in a bathtub drain. One way is to install a drain cover or grate to reduce the amount of air that can enter the drain. Another way is to pour a cup of water into the tub after draining to break up the vortex and prevent it from forming.

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