Can Intelligence Defy Entropy in a Closed System?

In summary, the conversation discusses the relationship between intelligence and entropy, specifically in the context of Maxwell's Demon. The idea is that intelligent particles, similar to Maxwell's Demon, can manipulate their surroundings and defy the tendency towards entropy. However, it is argued that the energy required for this manipulation ultimately results in an overall increase in entropy. The possibility of individual processes following "negentropy" while the overall process follows entropy is also discussed, using the example of freezing water.
  • #1
Gear300
1,213
9
I was sort of thinking of how intelligence fits in with entropy. I didn't fully read how the issue of Maxwell's Demon was resolved, so I'm not really sure of the whole picture. Also, I am not denying the second law of thermodynamics (just in case this assumption appears somewhere in the middle of this text). Here is what I was thinking:

There is a simple system of particles in a box, in which the particles are moving about. However, let us say that a few of the particles were intelligent or had a conscience. They then decide that they don't want to move about and instead they pile up to one of the corners of the box. This technically denies the tendency of organization that entropy describes. However, for the particles to do this (move to a corner of the box), they must expend additional energy, which may somehow cover up for the "negentropy" (reverse entropy) and show that the system in its entirety followed the direction of entropy as the net outcome (thus showing that macroscopic systems have a tendency to follow entropy). But altogether, the particles were able to think for themselves, thus they did not have to follow mechanistic tendencies. Wouldn't this imply that intelligence/thought might be a process of "negentropy?"
 
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  • #2
It's the same as Maxwell's demon - the inteligent particles would do work to segregate into one corner. The entropy needed to generate this energy more than makes up for the entropy loss.
 
  • #3
oh...so that apparently was the Maxwell's Demon case...but nonetheless...it did not disprove intelligence to be a process of reverse entropy.
 
  • #4
Maxwell said that the demon would distinguish hot particles from cold particles. The only way that it could do it is, for example, by releasing EM waves and see energy changes as they reflect from the particle. That process would increase entropy (the whole system would get warmed up by the waves) way more than anything. That's just my perception though, because I don't believe in any connection of information and entropy.
 
  • #5
Crazy Tosser said:
Maxwell said that the demon would distinguish hot particles from cold particles. The only way that it could do it is, for example, by releasing EM waves and see energy changes as they reflect from the particle. That process would increase entropy (the whole system would get warmed up by the waves) way more than anything. That's just my perception though, because I don't believe in any connection of information and entropy.

Still...its only taking into account entropy for the overall process. Wouldn't it be possible for a case that individual processes (that sum up to the whole) may follow "negentropy," while the overall process follows entropy...such might be the case for when you enter quantum scales...or am I missing something?
 
  • #6
Gear300 said:
O didn't fully read how the issue of Maxwell's Demon was resolved, so [..would] this imply that intelligence/thought might be a process of "negentropy?"
Better to think of intelligence as the behaviour of a complex computer. Unless the memory is infinite, some data will eventually need to be erased (an irreversible process).
Crazy Tosser said:
[Measuring] process would increase entropy (the whole system would get warmed up by the waves) way more than anything. That's just my perception though, because I don't believe in any connection of information and entropy.
Not done the math? (Consider if the system were made of large heavy components.)
Gear300 said:
Wouldn't it be possible for a case that individual processes (that sum up to the whole) may follow "negentropy," while the overall process follows entropy...?
Like freezing water?
 
  • #7
cesiumfrog said:
Like freezing water?

Yup...like freezing water.
 

Related to Can Intelligence Defy Entropy in a Closed System?

1. What is entropy?

Entropy is a measure of the disorder or randomness in a system. It is often associated with the concept of thermodynamics and is used to describe the amount of energy that is unavailable for work in a system.

2. What is the relationship between entropy and intelligence?

There is no direct relationship between entropy and intelligence. However, some theories suggest that intelligence can be seen as a way to decrease entropy by organizing and processing information in a more efficient and meaningful way.

3. Can entropy be reversed?

The second law of thermodynamics states that entropy always increases over time. However, in certain systems, such as living organisms, it is possible to decrease local entropy by using energy to maintain order. Overall, however, the total entropy of the universe will continue to increase.

4. How does entropy relate to information theory?

In information theory, entropy is used as a measure of uncertainty or randomness in a message or signal. The higher the entropy, the more unpredictable the message is. This can be applied to systems of communication, such as language, where we use words and grammar to decrease entropy and convey meaning.

5. How is entropy used in artificial intelligence?

In artificial intelligence, entropy can be used as a measure of the complexity of a system, such as a neural network. It can also be used in machine learning algorithms to measure the amount of uncertainty in data and guide the learning process. Additionally, theories such as the Maximum Entropy Principle are used in AI to make the most unbiased and accurate predictions based on available information.

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