Can stationary permanent magnet do work?

In summary, the conversation discusses the relationship between a permanent saturated magnet and a coil wound around it. It is noted that the energy of the magnetic field is proportional to the square of the magnetic induction. When the fields are added, there is an extra energy term that grows proportionally with the current in the coil. This leads to a discussion about where the extra energy comes from and the potential for cooling down the magnet to lose its magnetism and gain a larger energy boost for the coil. The conversation also mentions the concept of Poynting Theorem and the integral of the dot product of the electric field and current density. It is suggested that the electric force has no effect on the magnetic domains and the extra energy comes from the need for
  • #1
goran d
32
0
We have a permanent saturated magnet. And a coil wound around it. The current produces magnetic field in same direction as the magnet. Now we know that the energy of magnetic field is proportional to the square of the magnetic induction.
E1=kB12
E2=kB22
Etotal=kB12+kB22+2kB1B2
We have an extra energy term when we add the fields. It grows proportionally with the current in the coil. The extra energy has to come from somwhere, or does it?
The magnet appears to be doing work in increasing the field.
This is fully compatible with Poynting Theorem. The integral of the dot product of the electric field and current density is equal to the increased energy. However, what that force is trying to do is to spin down the magnetic domains, which it can't do. So the electric force simply has no effect on the domains. Where does the extra energy come from?
If we increase the current to a very large value, can we then cool down the magnet, it to lose its magnetism, and it gives a much larger energy "boost" to the coil than the energy we spend?
 
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  • #2
goran d said:
Now we know that the energy of magnetic field is proportional to the square of the magnetic induction.
Just a comment:

Edens = ½ * B * H [ J/m3 ] = ½ * B2 * μ

You say that the permanent magnet is saturated, so when extra H-field is added by the coil, μ → μ0 ( almost immediately ).

4-the-dc-generator-8-638.jpg
 
  • #3
Consider what would happen if the coil magnet started off separate from the permanent magnet. You would have to do work to bring it into position, because being the same way round it would repel the permanent magnet. So the total energy would now be more than the sum of the energy of each separate field.

On that basis, one would expect to need more electrical energy to create the same amount of current (and hence that magnetic field) in the coil when it is wound round the permanent magnet than it would when it is separate.
 

1. How does a stationary permanent magnet do work?

A stationary permanent magnet does work by exerting a force on other magnetic objects. This force can be used to move or rotate other objects, and therefore do work.

2. Can a stationary permanent magnet generate electricity?

Yes, a stationary permanent magnet can generate electricity by inducing a current in a nearby conductor. This is the principle behind generators and electric motors.

3. What determines the strength of a stationary permanent magnet?

The strength of a stationary permanent magnet is determined by its magnetic field, which is determined by the material it is made of and its physical size and shape.

4. Can a stationary permanent magnet lose its magnetism?

Yes, over time, a stationary permanent magnet can lose its magnetism due to factors such as exposure to high temperatures or strong magnetic fields, or physical damage.

5. How can a stationary permanent magnet be used in everyday life?

A stationary permanent magnet has many uses in everyday life, such as in motors, generators, speakers, and magnetic storage devices. It also plays a role in technologies like MRI machines and maglev trains.

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