Exceptions to the Laws of Physics: Newton's Third Law

In summary: If both protons are moving at the same velocity, the force on p1 is greater than the force on p2. If both protons have the same charge, why is the force on p1 greater than the force on p2?Because p1 is closer to p2 than p2 is to p1.In summary, at the quantum level, there are exceptions to Newton's laws, particularly in cases involving magnetic forces between particles moving at right angles to each other. These forces are not always equal and opposite, as predicted by Newton's Third Law. This can be seen in a scenario where two protons moving in different directions experience magnetic forces that are not equal in magnitude.
  • #1
Akshat
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I've been noticing that there are exceptions to every scientific law. For Example, with Newton's First and Second Laws are totally invalid at the quantum level, but I'm failing to find such an example for Newton's Third Law. Is anyone able to help me?
 
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  • #2
There are no known exceptions to Newton's first and second law. Why not? Because every law also has a domain of applicability. So Newton's law are not incorrect, rather they are not applicable at quantum level.
 
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  • #3
I think what both of you are trying to say is the same thing. Akshat does not say that Newton's laws are incorrect but it can not be applied at the quantum level. Am I making some mistake?
 
  • #4
Correct. I'm saying that according to the Law of Exceptions, no law of physics is truly universal. The first two laws' exceptions are in the quantum world, but I'm struggling to find the exception for the third law.
 
  • #5
Akshat said:
I've been noticing that there are exceptions to every scientific law. For Example, with Newton's First and Second Laws are totally invalid at the quantum level, but I'm failing to find such an example for Newton's Third Law. Is anyone able to help me?

Whoa! Go back a bit. Where exactly in QM are Newton's 1st and 2nd laws "totally invalid"? What do you think you get when you apply Ehrenfest theorem in QM?

Zz.
 
  • #6
ZapperZ said:
Whoa! Go back a bit. Where exactly in QM are Newton's 1st and 2nd laws "totally invalid"? What do you think you get when you apply Ehrenfest theorem in QM?

Zz.
I used the word invalid because Laws 1 and 2 involve force, and the classical concept of force doesn't exist. And I can't say anything about Ehrenfest, because I don't know anything about it. I'm just an incoming first year student.
 
  • #7
Akshat said:
I used the word invalid because Laws 1 and 2 involve force, and the classical concept of force doesn't exist.

What do you mean that the concept of force doesn't exist in QM?

In a Schrodinger equation, when you write the central potential for a hydrogen atom, do you think that the gradient of that potential isn't a "force"?

I am trying very hard to figure out WHERE you got this idea that (i) there is no such thing as a "force", and that (ii) Newton's 1st and 2nd law are invalid in QM. Your explanation that you have given in this thread has been very vague. How about you either cite me your source, or give me a specific example to support your claim.

And I can't say anything about Ehrenfest, because I don't know anything about it. I'm just an incoming first year student.

But yet you seem to not be shy about making these claims in this thread. And what's to prevent you from looking it up?

http://www.reed.edu/physics/faculty/wheeler/documents/Quantum[/PLAIN] Mechanics/Miscellaneous Essays/Ehrenfest's Theorem.pdf

Look at the form that is practically equivalent to Newton's 2nd law!

Zz.
 
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  • #8
Akshat said:
according to the Law of Exceptions
The "law of exceptions" is not a recognized law of physics. Posts about it will be deleted.

Stick to the discussion about Newton's laws
 
  • #9
Akshat said:
I've been noticing that there are exceptions to every scientific law. For Example, with Newton's First and Second Laws are totally invalid at the quantum level, but I'm failing to find such an example for Newton's Third Law. Is anyone able to help me?
Take two protons moving with velocities at right angles to each other. The magnetic forces exerted by each on the other do not follow Newton's third law.
 
  • #10
Chandra Prayaga said:
Take two protons moving with velocities at right angles to each other. The magnetic forces exerted by each on the other do not follow Newton's third law.

How so?
 
  • #11
Drakkith said:
How so?
Proton 1 (p1) moving in the positive x direction, currently at some position on the positive x-axis. Proton 2 (p2) moving in the positive y direction, currently at some position on the positive y-axis.
The magnetic field of p1 at the position of p2 is in the positive z direction (Biot-Savart law). So the force on p2 is in the + x direction (Lorentz force).
The magnetic field of p2 at the position of p1 is in the - z direction. The force on p1 is in + y direction.
So the two forces are not opposite to each other.
 

What is Newton's Third Law?

Newton's Third Law states that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. This means that when one object exerts a force on another object, the second object will exert an equal force in the opposite direction.

Can Newton's Third Law be violated?

No, Newton's Third Law is a fundamental law of physics and has been consistently observed and tested in various experiments. It is considered to be one of the most fundamental principles of classical mechanics.

Are there any exceptions to Newton's Third Law?

There are no known exceptions to Newton's Third Law. However, there are situations where it may appear that the law is being violated, but this is due to other factors such as friction or external forces.

Can Newton's Third Law be applied to all types of forces?

Yes, Newton's Third Law applies to all types of forces, including gravitational, electromagnetic, and nuclear forces. It is a universal law that governs the interactions between all objects in the universe.

How does Newton's Third Law relate to everyday life?

Newton's Third Law has many practical applications in everyday life, such as in sports where the force of impact and reaction can be seen in actions like throwing a ball or hitting a baseball with a bat. It also applies to the movement of vehicles and objects, as well as the functioning of machines and tools.

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