Is the division of zero by zero a true division?

In summary, the conversation discusses the controversial topic of division by zero in mathematics. Some argue that it is not a valid operation due to the requirement that any quotient must be a number, and no number multiplied by zero results in a nonzero number. Others argue that this requirement is arbitrary and not applicable to ratios of limits. The conversation also mentions the idea of "proof by repetition" and the consequences of defining division by zero, with no clear consensus on whether it should be allowed or not.
  • #1
mirelo
19
0
Is it zero divided by zero even a division? According to some, it is not, because division would have three requirements:

1) That any quotient must be a number.
2) That any quotient multiplied by a divisor must give us a dividend, which presupposes that any quotient is a number.
3) That no division can have more than one quotient.

My purpose here is to show the artificial nature of the third requirement, which has the sole purpose of invalidating the division of zero by zero, the first two requirements being the only true requirements of division (in fact, there is only one requirement, namely, that any quotient must be a number, since the concept of a quotient already presupposes a divisor and a dividend, which makes the second requirement redundant).

Those who deny the validity of the division of zero by zero allege that it is not only indeterminate -- meaning it has any quotient -- but also undefined -- meaning it has no quotient (I am not talking here about indeterminate forms, but simply about an indeterminate mathematical operation, meaning it has a multitude of equally valid outcomes). However, there is a division that is indeed undefined without being also indeterminate, which is the division of any other number (than zero) by zero, for which there is indeed no quotient, since no number multiplied by zero results in a nonzero number -- any number multiplied by zero results in zero, which is precisely what makes the division of zero by zero indeterminate in the first place. Therefore, once the division of any number by zero is reputed as undefined, and since the division of any other number than zero by zero is indeed undefined although without being indeterminate, we must add a fourth requirement to the list of division requirements, namely, that no division can have less than one quotient:

1) Any quotient must be a number.
2) Any quotient multiplied by a divisor must give us a dividend, which presupposes that any quotient is a number.
3) No division can have more than one quotient.
4) No division can have less than one quotient.

First of all, let us notice that the first two requirements apply to quotients, while the last two apply to divisions. In other words, the last two requirements presuppose a complete mathematical operation with a dividend, a divisor and -- already -- a quotient. However, at least when dealing with limits, we do not have such a situation: quotients of limits tend to some value, rather than being fixed once and for all whenever we simply formulate a division.

Of course we could say that for each possible value of a pair of numerator / denominator limits there is only one quotient, but then we are no longer talking about ratios of limits. If we accept the last two division requirements, then we are utterly forbidden of talking about such ratios -- their very mathematical concept becomes impossible: we will never be able to talk again about quotients tending to anything.

This is enough to show that the last two requirements are not only arbitrary, but also false:

1) The first two requirements refer to a different object than the last two, which refer to entire divisions -- while the first two (uncontroversial) requirements refer to quotients.
2) The last two requirements are incompatible with ratios involving limits.

This result is no surprise, as the last two requirements were specifically added to invalidate the division of any number by zero in general and the division of zero by zero in particular -- and without success, as they are incompatible with ratios involving limits.
 
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  • #2
You are free to play with the rules. However, as accepted by mathematicians, division by 0 is simply not allowed for obvious reasons.
 
  • #3
Weren't two threads on this subject enough?
 
  • #4
jhae2.718 said:
Weren't two threads on this subject enough?

"What I tell you three times is true"
-- Lewis Carroll, "The Hunting of the Snark".
:smile:

But "proof by repetition" isn't usually considered valid in mathematics :rolleyes:
 
  • #5
Wikipedia said:
With the following assumptions:
59fbcec15fbbc8744c0a4309c126a8a8.png

The following must be true:
[URL]http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/d/2/e/d2e283e91dee2cad966314a84da9f1d5.png[/URL]
Dividing by zero gives:
[URL]http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/4/6/9/469c83d5e0959e4caaceea20df153c53.png[/URL]
Simplified, yields:
[URL]http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/c/4/c/c4c9b852c938da096b69fc257a7a8d82.png[/URL]
This is one of the reasons why mathematicians avoid 1/0 and 0/0.

But we can reach a similar problem with this, which we obviously avoid:

x2 = 4

x = +-sqrt(4)

x = 2 and x = -2

2 = -2
 
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  • #6
FtlIsAwesome said:
But we can reach a similar problem with this, which we obviously avoid:

x2 = 4

x = +-sqrt(4)

x = 2 and x = -2
That should be x = 2 OR x = -2, since x can't simultaneously equal both 2 and -2.
FtlIsAwesome said:
2 = -2
This is not a valid conclusion from the statement that x = 2 or x = -2.
 
  • #7
Mark44 said:
That should be x = 2 OR x = -2, since x can't simultaneously equal both 2 and -2.
Ah. Ok.
Mark44 said:
This is not a valid conclusion from the statement that x = 2 or x = -2.
My point exactly, that both were invalid conclusions.



Is the example I took from Wikipedia the only reason we avoid division by zero, or are there others?

But I'll say that the topic is interesting. Any uses to division by zero?
 
  • #8
I don't think defining division by zero would be well-defined. However, this is only a educated guess since if it was, I'd assume mathematicians to have built a new branch off it already

FtlIsAwesome said:
My point exactly, that both were invalid conclusions.
I'm not sure how the latter fits in at all. It's just an illogical conclusion that doesn't seem to relate to division by 0.
 

1. What is the result of dividing zero by zero?

The result of dividing zero by zero is undefined. This means that there is no numerical value that can be assigned to this division.

2. Why is the division of zero by zero considered undefined?

This is because in math, division is defined as the process of finding how many times one number can fit into another number. However, in the case of zero divided by zero, there is no number that can be multiplied by zero to get a specific result.

3. Can the division of zero by zero ever be equal to a specific number?

No, the division of zero by zero can never be equal to a specific number. As mentioned before, division by zero is undefined and has no numerical value.

4. Is there any real-life application for the division of zero by zero?

No, there is no real-life application for the division of zero by zero. In practical scenarios, division by zero is considered an error and not a valid operation.

5. What happens if I try to divide by zero in a computer program?

Most computer programs will generate an error or crash if you attempt to divide by zero. This is because computers follow the same mathematical rules as humans, and division by zero is not a valid operation.

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