Momentum and Energy problem (ball and incline collision)

AI Thread Summary
A ball with a mass of 6 kg and an unknown speed collides with a stationary inclined plane of mass 42 kg on a frictionless surface at a 10-degree angle. The discussion revolves around applying conservation of momentum and kinetic energy to solve for the unknowns, including the angle α. Participants suggest eliminating the velocity of the inclined plane (v2) from the equations to find a ratio of v1 to v0. There is a consensus that using the conservation equations correctly can lead to a solution, but clarity on the elimination process is needed. The conversation emphasizes the importance of correctly setting up the equations to solve for the unknowns effectively.
Idoke
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Homework Statement


A ball, with mass m_{1}=6 kg and speed v_{0} (unknown) hits an inclined plane (as shown) of mass m_{2}=42 kg at rest on a frictionless floor.
there is no friction between the ball and the plane.
the angle \beta is 10 degrees.
Question: what is the value of \alpha?2. Diagram

attachment.php?attachmentid=22598&stc=1&d=1261179976.png


The Attempt at a Solution


I used three things:
1. The conservation of momentum parallel to the X axis, because there are no forces on the system in that axis:
m_{1}v_{0}=m_{1}v_{1}cos\beta+m_{2}v_{2}
where v_{1} and v_{2} are the velocities after the collision of the ball and plane, respectively.
EDITED: the equation was wrong, the inclined plane had no velocity before the collision.

2. The conservation of the ball's momentum on the axis parallel to the inclined plane (because no forces are acting on the ball in that axis) :
m_{1}v_{0}sin\alpha=m_{1}v_{1}sin\beta

3. Conservation of kinetic energy:
1/2m_{1}v_{0}^{2}=1/2m_{1}v_{1}^{2}+1/2m_{2}v_{2}^{2}Now I have a problem, I have 3 equations but 4 unknowns (v1, v2, alpha and v0). could someone shed some light on this?
I thought about doing this in the center of mass reference frame but i always get stuck with the fact that the momentum is not conserved in the Y direction.
help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
 

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You can eliminate v2 from the equations for the energy and horizontal momentum, and than solve for v1/v0.

ehild
 
You can eliminate v2 from the equations for the energy and horizontal momentum, and than solve for v1/v0.

But I still need to find alpha!
Do I not have the same predicament?
I feel like I'm missing another equation, or there might be a more elegant solution than this mess.
If I could find how much impulse (or change in momentum) the floor had on the ball and plane I think I could arrive at a solution.
What do you think?
 
from your second eqn V1/V0=sin (alpha)/sin (beta); the latter is known.
 
First of all, thanks for your time, both of you.
Now, I fixed the first equation, the inclined plane had no velocity before the collision.
I might be really dense, but I don't understand how to eliminate v2 from my equation or how that helps me solve the system.
If you could clarify, i'd be very grateful.
Ido.
 
I believe what ehild was suggesting is using eqns 1 & 3 to get the ratio v1/vo

in other words: use eqn 1 to express v2 in terms of masses, angles and v1

something like v2=m1/m2 * (1-cos(alpha)) v1. Then use your conservation of energy formula but substitute for v2 the eqn above. You should be able to get a v1/vo ratio from that. Then use eqn 2 as I mentioned.
 
Kindly see the attached pdf. My attempt to solve it, is in it. I'm wondering if my solution is right. My idea is this: At any point of time, the ball may be assumed to be at an incline which is at an angle of θ(kindly see both the pics in the pdf file). The value of θ will continuously change and so will the value of friction. I'm not able to figure out, why my solution is wrong, if it is wrong .
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