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Mike Xander
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<Moderators note. Moved from the quoted thread to avoid detracting>
Below is a longer description of the electric origin of magnetic force written by Robert Spark to answer a similar question and I quote it here:
“This might be a long answer but hope it helps in resolving the curiosity about this controversial topic. A better understanding of the nature and origin of magnetic force is needed to understand how the Newton’s third law does not fail in magnetostatic. The conservation of momentum explanation is a solid proof that the third law is satisfied in magnetostatics but this explanation does not say HOW, some may make general statements such as “there are corresponding and opposite net forces and torques on the electromagnetic field” and this is not satisfying for me.
It is known that electric currents generate magnetic field/force but since these currents are electrically neutral the magnetic force and the electric force were treated as different aspects of the same subject. Therefore, the actual nature of magnetic field/force was a mystery.
A new work published recently provided a successful explanation to the origin of the magnetic force that is able to explain how the Newton’s third law is satisfied in magnetism, how opposite forces exist, and why they do not appear in some cases, and it was satisfying to me. Shadid in his work “Two new theories for the current charge relativity and the electric origin of the magnetic force” analyzed the electric field pattern spreading in the space due to the movement of electric current charges. Biot-Savart law and Magnetic force law depend on two properties of the current only: Amount and direction. So regardless how the current is generated, e.g., (moving negative charges, moving positive charges, or both moving positive and moving negative charges) as long as it has the same amount and direction it will produce the same magnetic field/force effect in the space. This effect is studied using the minimum possible equal amount of positive and negative charges moving in opposite directions that is needed to produce the current. This minimum amount is obtained when these charges are moving at the maximum possible speed, which is at the speed of light.
In this situation, when the positive and negative charges switch positions in a current element due to their movement the spreading electric field changes from inward to outward and from outward to inward indicating the change of charge positions. This alternation in electric field produces discontinuity points in the spreading electric field. By applying Gauss law at these discontinuity points, the Gauss law indicates the existence of charges, referred to as discontinuity charges. These discontinuity charges surround current elements and are produced when charges move to carry on electric field changes in the space. These charges are partially explained by the photons that travel to indicate the changes in the electric field, these photons are assumed to be charged as assumed in Altschul’s work "Bound on the photon charge from the phase coherence of extragalactic radiation".
These discontinuity charges interact with the moving positive and negative charges in a current element to produce the magnetic force. By applying the electric force law on these interactions the exact magnetic force law and Biot-Savart law are derived as specified in the electromagnetic theory. So, moving electric charges of current elements interact with each other through discontinuity charges, since current elements are electrically neutral. The electric force between a current charge and a discontinuity charge obeys Newton's third law as in Coulomb’s law. The forces exerted on current charges allow the charges to produce either a non-zero or zero net force on the containing infinitesimal current element. This net force on the current element is the observed magnetic force. The produced net force is non-zero on the current element when the positive and negative charges push the current element in the same direction. The push occurs when the exerted forces are perpendicular to the motion direction of the charges and they are not allowed to move outside the containing filamentary current element, while they are free to move along that element. Notice that the push interaction between the current charges and the containing current element obeys Newton’s third law as in particles interaction. However, the net force is zero when these charges push the current element in opposite directions thereby canceling each other or when the exerted forces on the current charges are completely along the direction of movement for the charges so no push force is produced on the containing current element.
The full details of the proof and calculation are a bit long; I gave a brief overview of it. Details can be found at http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp...″
Newton third law does apply in magnetism, and this is proved by applying the conservation of momentum principle. This will be clearer when the causes/origin of the magnetic force is understood as described in the work "Two new theories for the current charge relativity and the electric origin of the magnetic force between two filamentary current elements" by Shadid. Current elements produce spreading electric fields in the space that changes from inward to outward and outward to inward due to the position switching of the moving positive and negative in current elements. These changes produce discontinuity charges at changing points following Gauss law. These charges electrically interact with the moving charges in current elements to produce the magnetic force. The electrical interaction between current discontinuity charges and moving current charges satisfy Newton third law. So the Newton third law applies in magnetism. Also, this description applies for protons.Chandra Prayaga said:Proton 1 (p1) moving in the positive x direction, currently at some position on the positive x-axis. Proton 2 (p2) moving in the positive y direction, currently at some position on the positive y-axis.
The magnetic field of p1 at the position of p2 is in the positive z direction (Biot-Savart law). So the force on p2 is in the + x direction (Lorentz force).
The magnetic field of p2 at the position of p1 is in the - z direction. The force on p1 is in + y direction.
So the two forces are not opposite to each other.
Below is a longer description of the electric origin of magnetic force written by Robert Spark to answer a similar question and I quote it here:
“This might be a long answer but hope it helps in resolving the curiosity about this controversial topic. A better understanding of the nature and origin of magnetic force is needed to understand how the Newton’s third law does not fail in magnetostatic. The conservation of momentum explanation is a solid proof that the third law is satisfied in magnetostatics but this explanation does not say HOW, some may make general statements such as “there are corresponding and opposite net forces and torques on the electromagnetic field” and this is not satisfying for me.
It is known that electric currents generate magnetic field/force but since these currents are electrically neutral the magnetic force and the electric force were treated as different aspects of the same subject. Therefore, the actual nature of magnetic field/force was a mystery.
A new work published recently provided a successful explanation to the origin of the magnetic force that is able to explain how the Newton’s third law is satisfied in magnetism, how opposite forces exist, and why they do not appear in some cases, and it was satisfying to me. Shadid in his work “Two new theories for the current charge relativity and the electric origin of the magnetic force” analyzed the electric field pattern spreading in the space due to the movement of electric current charges. Biot-Savart law and Magnetic force law depend on two properties of the current only: Amount and direction. So regardless how the current is generated, e.g., (moving negative charges, moving positive charges, or both moving positive and moving negative charges) as long as it has the same amount and direction it will produce the same magnetic field/force effect in the space. This effect is studied using the minimum possible equal amount of positive and negative charges moving in opposite directions that is needed to produce the current. This minimum amount is obtained when these charges are moving at the maximum possible speed, which is at the speed of light.
In this situation, when the positive and negative charges switch positions in a current element due to their movement the spreading electric field changes from inward to outward and from outward to inward indicating the change of charge positions. This alternation in electric field produces discontinuity points in the spreading electric field. By applying Gauss law at these discontinuity points, the Gauss law indicates the existence of charges, referred to as discontinuity charges. These discontinuity charges surround current elements and are produced when charges move to carry on electric field changes in the space. These charges are partially explained by the photons that travel to indicate the changes in the electric field, these photons are assumed to be charged as assumed in Altschul’s work "Bound on the photon charge from the phase coherence of extragalactic radiation".
These discontinuity charges interact with the moving positive and negative charges in a current element to produce the magnetic force. By applying the electric force law on these interactions the exact magnetic force law and Biot-Savart law are derived as specified in the electromagnetic theory. So, moving electric charges of current elements interact with each other through discontinuity charges, since current elements are electrically neutral. The electric force between a current charge and a discontinuity charge obeys Newton's third law as in Coulomb’s law. The forces exerted on current charges allow the charges to produce either a non-zero or zero net force on the containing infinitesimal current element. This net force on the current element is the observed magnetic force. The produced net force is non-zero on the current element when the positive and negative charges push the current element in the same direction. The push occurs when the exerted forces are perpendicular to the motion direction of the charges and they are not allowed to move outside the containing filamentary current element, while they are free to move along that element. Notice that the push interaction between the current charges and the containing current element obeys Newton’s third law as in particles interaction. However, the net force is zero when these charges push the current element in opposite directions thereby canceling each other or when the exerted forces on the current charges are completely along the direction of movement for the charges so no push force is produced on the containing current element.
The full details of the proof and calculation are a bit long; I gave a brief overview of it. Details can be found at http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp...″
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