No. of Electrons on Hard Disks: New vs Used

In summary: The question is about how the number of electrons on a hard disk might change, and 2) the person asking the question is aware that a capacitor is a component that can store electrons. In summary, the conversation is about whether the number of electrons on a hard disk can change and if capacitors play a role in storing these electrons. The person asking the question is aware of the functioning of hard disks and the presence of capacitors in the hardware circuitry. They are curious about the potential changes in the number of electrons on a hard disk and the role of capacitors in this process.
  • #1
Vikas Goyal
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Is the no. of electrons on a brand new unused and untested harddisk is different from no. of electrons on a used hard disk completely filled with data. i mean will there be even a change of one electron?

Please consider the following points before answering: 1- Does all the electrons from a battery flow back to it when it connected inn a circuit. 2- will Semi conductors,capacitor, resistors, inductors and the metal and nonmetal parts of the hark disk not add or loose electrons in the process even by the accuracy of one electrons? Thnks for the answers in advanc
 
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  • #2
Vikas Goyal said:
Is the no. of electrons on a brand new unused and untested harddisk is different from no. of electrons on a used hard disk completely filled with data. i mean will there be even a change of one electron?

Please consider the following points before answering: 1- Does all the electrons from a battery flow back to it when it connected inn a circuit. 2- will Semi conductors,capacitor, resistors, inductors and the metal and nonmetal parts of the hark disk not add or loose electrons in the process even by the accuracy of one electrons? Thnks for the answers in advanc

This is a head-scratcher. Why would the number of electrons change on a hard disk? The hard disk works by changing its magnetic properties, i.e. the magnetism at various locations on the platter is the stored information. What does this have anything to do with changing the number of electrons on it?

Please consider, before posting this question, why you think charges are lost in any of these components, considering that one side of it is usually grounded or otherwise in a closed loop! Otherwise, you will detect a charge build-up in no time which will dramatically alter the electronic properties of these things.

Zz.
 
  • #3
ZapperZ said:
This is a head-scratcher. Why would the number of electrons change on a hard disk? The hard disk works by changing its magnetic properties, i.e. the magnetism at various locations on the platter is the stored information. What does this have anything to do with changing the number of electrons on it?

Please consider, before posting this question, why you think charges are lost in any of these components, considering that one side of it is usually grounded or otherwise in a closed loop! Otherwise, you will detect a charge build-up in no time which will dramatically alter the electronic properties of these things.

Zz.
Please consider following points.
1) static charges developed on the Hard Disk,
2) Induced charges from the surroundings.
3) Electrons stored in capacitor in the hard Disk.
4) My aim of the ques was actually to consider the non Grounded scenario.. in that case will the no. of electrons still change and if so then where will these extra electrons come from?
 
  • #4
Vikas Goyal said:
Please consider following points.
1) static charges developed on the Hard Disk,
2) Induced charges from the surroundings.
3) Electrons stored in capacitor in the hard Disk.
4) My aim of the ques was actually to consider the non Grounded scenario.. in that case will the no. of electrons still change and if so then where will these extra electrons come from?
Do you think the number of electrons on a hard disk has ANYTHING to do with the operation of the hard disk?

There IS no capacitor in the hard disk. There probably are capacitors in the drive circuitry but that has nothing to do with what's on the hard disk.

It really sounds like you have no idea what a hard disk is or how it operates. I suggest you read up on them and it will become clear to you that some of your questions don't even make any sense.
 
  • #5
Vikas Goyal said:
Please consider following points.
1) static charges developed on the Hard Disk,
2) Induced charges from the surroundings.
3) Electrons stored in capacitor in the hard Disk.
4) My aim of the ques was actually to consider the non Grounded scenario.. in that case will the no. of electrons still change and if so then where will these extra electrons come from?

I'm sure you've played with an electroscope before, probably in elementary school. Have you not notice that if you leave it charged, that over time, the leaf collapses by itself? What does that tell you?

Secondly, have you actually detected these static charged on a hard disk? I don't believe that this is a common occurrence, because it can mess up the magnetism. So unless you can show that this is a COMMON problem, I'm not going to address an unverified scenario.

Zz.
 
  • #6
phinds said:
Do you think the number of electrons on a hard disk has ANYTHING to do with the operation of the hard disk?

There IS no capacitor in the hard disk. There probably are capacitors in the drive circuitry but that has nothing to do with what's on the hard disk.

It really sounds like you have no idea what a hard disk is or how it operates. I suggest you read up on them and it will become clear to you that some of your questions don't even make any sense.

I have read complete functioning of Hard Disk in DETAIL and i do have idea of How hard disks work.
But seems like you are not able to understand the depth of this question and for your info please check that hard disk do contain capacitors.!
They are a part of the hardware circuitry. A charge on them will be a part of the Disk Drive itself.!
 
  • #7
ZapperZ said:
I'm sure you've played with an electroscope before, probably in elementary school. Have you not notice that if you leave it charged, that over time, the leaf collapses by itself? What does that tell you?

Secondly, have you actually detected these static charged on a hard disk? I don't believe that this is a common occurrence, because it can mess up the magnetism. So unless you can show that this is a COMMON problem, I'm not going to address an unverified scenario.

Zz.
I appreciate your knowledge and the fact that such small charge can not be measured.
But I want to know that is it guarranted that number of electrons on a hard drive before and after operation will be exactly same to the precision of even ONE electron?
if not, please guide me with possible reasons for that.
Thanks
 
  • #8
phinds said:
Do you think the number of electrons on a hard disk has ANYTHING to do with the operation of the hard disk?

There IS no capacitor in the hard disk. There probably are capacitors in the drive circuitry but that has nothing to do with what's on the hard disk.

It really sounds like you have no idea what a hard disk is or how it operates. I suggest you read up on them and it will become clear to you that some of your questions don't even make any sense.

++ I know that in a hard disk data is stored in the form of MAGNETIC ENERGY and that has nothing to do with no. of electrons but if we consider the hardware unit of the Hard disk as one, then will the number of electrons change or remain same even to the precision of one electrons before and after the first use. :)
 
  • #9
Vikas Goyal said:
++ I know that in a hard disk data is stored in the form of MAGNETIC ENERGY and that has nothing to do with no. of electrons but if we consider the hardware unit of the Hard disk as one, then will the number of electrons change or remain same even to the precision of one electrons before and after the first use. :)
Don't know, don't care, as it is utterly irrelevant to anything that I can imagine as being meaningful in any way.
 
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  • #10
Vikas Goyal said:
I appreciate your knowledge and the fact that such small charge can not be measured.
But I want to know that is it guarranted that number of electrons on a hard drive before and after operation will be exactly same to the precision of even ONE electron?
if not, please guide me with possible reasons for that.
Thanks

Please note that you were the one who brought up the idea that the hard disk platter can lose electrons during operations. How about YOU be the person to provide such evidence, rather than asking me to falsify your claim?

Zz.
 
  • #11
phinds said:
Don't know, don't care, as it is utterly irrelevant to anything that I can imagine as being meaningful in any way.
Thanks for the reply :) but I guess this forum was intended to discuss the doubts and misconceptions about physics.
People here discuss cosmic Realty and Parallel Universes. I guess this doubt was far more relevant and realistic.
It is meaningful if you REALLY want to imagine so.. Thanks anyways :)
One possible ques was if really the charge changes then where does that charge come from and this charge on hard drive if increased to an impact-able level may also harm the data in Hard Drive..!
 
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  • #12
ZapperZ said:
Please note that you were the one who brought up the idea that the hard disk platter can lose electrons during operations. How about YOU be the person to provide such evidence, rather than asking me to falsify your claim?

Zz.
I am really unable to prove this that is why i asked this question with no intentions to hurt you.
If you can PLEASE provider some further light to the topic then it would be helpful :)
 
  • #13
ZapperZ said:
Please note that you were the one who brought up the idea that the hard disk platter can lose electrons during operations. How about YOU be the person to provide such evidence, rather than asking me to falsify your claim?

Zz.
One more thing I would like to suggest that every moving body looses charge particles and we have moving parts in the HardDisk that can account for the loss of electrons from it. #JUST A theory.
 
  • #14
Vikas Goyal said:
One more thing I would like to suggest that every moving body looses charge particles and we have moving parts in the HardDisk that can account for the loss of electrons from it. #JUST A theory.

No, this is guessing. Unfortunately, you are asking us to debunk something that hasn't been shown to occur.

Charge accumulation on the hard disk platter can be awfully bad, because it can not only disrupt the magnetic domains, it can also induce spurious signals being picked up. So the design of these things have to be quite stringent to prevent that from happening. That is why I asked you to show evidence that this is a common occurrence in these devices. Since you never responded to that request, then I will assume that you do not posses any supporting evidence.

I will, therefore categorize this as speculation. You should retread the PF rules on the policy for such speculative posts.

Zz.
 
  • #15
@Vikas Goyal -- Personal theories are not permitted at the PF. This thread is closed.

Thread is re-opened temporarily so Russ can try to help the OP.
 
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1. How do you determine the number of electrons on a hard disk?

The number of electrons on a hard disk can be determined by using an electron microscope to examine the surface of the disk. This allows for the visualization of individual electrons and the counting of their number.

2. Is there a difference in the number of electrons between new and used hard disks?

Yes, there can be a difference in the number of electrons between new and used hard disks. Over time, the movement and storage of data on a hard disk can result in the loss of some electrons, leading to a decrease in overall electron count.

3. How does the number of electrons affect the performance of a hard disk?

The number of electrons on a hard disk can impact its performance in terms of read and write speeds. A higher number of electrons can result in faster data transfer rates, while a lower number of electrons may cause slower performance.

4. Can the number of electrons be increased on a used hard disk?

No, the number of electrons on a used hard disk cannot be increased. Electrons cannot be added or removed from a hard disk once it has been manufactured. However, regular maintenance and proper use can help maintain or improve the electron count over time.

5. Are there any external factors that can affect the number of electrons on a hard disk?

Yes, there are external factors that can affect the number of electrons on a hard disk, such as exposure to magnetic fields, extreme temperatures, or physical damage. These factors can cause a decrease in the number of electrons and potentially impact the performance of the hard disk.

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