Partial integration vs total integration and time-dependent force

In summary, the conversation discusses the concepts of anti-total-derivatives and anti-partial-derivatives in the context of integration. It explains that anti-total-derivatives, also known as total-integrals, are defined as the integration of a function with respect to a variable, while anti-partial-derivatives, also known as partial-integrals, are defined as the integration of a function with respect to a variable with a fixed value for another variable. Examples of partial integration and total differential are provided to illustrate these concepts. The conversation also addresses a potential inconsistency in one of the equations, but it is ultimately resolved by clarifying the difference between a field function and an actual force experienced by a particle.
  • #1
Happiness
679
30
Integration as antiderivative

Question: Why isn't a distinction made between anti-total-derivatives and anti-partial-derivatives in common usage of integration?

Consider the functions ##G_1(x, t)## and ##F(x, t)## such that ##F(x, t)=\frac{d}{dx}G_1(x, t)=\frac{\partial G}{\partial x}+\frac{dt}{dx}\frac{\partial G}{\partial t}=\frac{\partial G}{\partial x}+\frac{1}{v}\frac{\partial G}{\partial t}##, where ##v=\frac{dx}{dt}## is the velocity.

Then we define ##G_1(x, t)## as the anti-total-derivative (also known as the total-integration) of ##F(x, t)## with respect to ##x##. ##F(x, t)=\frac{d}{dx}G_1(x, t)\iff G_1(x, t)=\int_a^xF(x', t(x'))d_{full}x'+c##, where ##a## and ##c## are constants.

Next, consider the functions ##G_2(x, t)## and ##F(x, t)## such that ##F(x, t)=\frac{\partial}{\partial x}G_2(x, t)##.

Then we define ##G_2(x, t)## as the anti-partial-derivative (also known as the partial-integration) of ##F(x, t)## with respect to ##x##. ##F(x, t)=\frac{\partial}{\partial x}G_2(x, t)\iff G_2(x, t)=\int_{a(y)}^xF(x', t(x'))d_{partial}x'+c(y)##.

Example: Partial integration

Question: Is equation (2) below correct?

Consider a force ##F## that varies with displacement ##x## and time ##t##. In general, the acceleration ##a## and velocity ##v## of a particle subjected to such a force also vary with ##x## and ##t##.

##a=\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}\frac{dx}{dt}+\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}=v\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}+\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}##

Since ##F=ma=mv\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}+m\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}##,

##mv\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}=F-m\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}.\,\,\,\,\,## -------- (1)

Integrating (partial-integration) both sides wrt ##x##,

##\int mv\frac{\partial v}{\partial x} d_{partial}x=\int(F(x, t)-m\frac{\partial v}{\partial t})d_{partial}x##

##\frac{1}{2}mv^2=g(x, t)+h(t)\,\,\,\,\,## -------- (2) Is this correct?

where ##\frac{\partial}{\partial x}g(x, t)=F(x, t)-m\frac{\partial v(x, t)}{\partial t}##.

Example: Total differential

Question: I obtain below ##\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}=0##, which is inconsistent with ##F(x, t)##. What's wrong?

Multiplying ##dx## to both sides of (1),

##mv\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}dx=(F-m\frac{\partial v}{\partial t})dx##.

Adding ##mv\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}dt## to both sides,

##mv(\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}dx+\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}dt)=(F-m\frac{\partial v}{\partial t})dx+mv\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}dt.\,\,\,\,\,## -------- (3)

Since ##dv=\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}dx+\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}dt## and ##vdt=dx##,

##mvdv=(F-m\frac{\partial v}{\partial t})dx+m\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}dx=Fdx##.

Integrating both sides,

##\frac{1}{2}mv^2=\int F(x, t)dx##.

I believe the integration on the RHS should be a partial-integration. (But why?) Then

##\frac{1}{2}mv^2=G(x, t)+H(t)## (This is consistent with equation (2).)

where ##\frac{\partial}{\partial x}G(x, t)=F(x, t)##.

But simplifying the RHS of (3), we have

##mv\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}dx+mv\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}dt=Fdx+0dt##

By comparing terms with ##dt##, we deduce

##\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}=0##.

But this is inconsistent with a time-dependent force ##F(x, t)##. What's wrong?
 
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  • #2
Happiness said:
Integration as antiderivative

Question: Why isn't a distinction made between anti-total-derivatives and anti-partial-derivatives in common usage of integration?

Consider the functions ##G_1(x, t)## and ##F(x, t)## such that ##F(x, t)=\frac{d}{dx}G_1(x, t)=\frac{\partial G}{\partial x}+\frac{dt}{dx}\frac{\partial G}{\partial t}=\frac{\partial G}{\partial x}+\frac{1}{v}\frac{\partial G}{\partial t}##, where ##v=\frac{dx}{dt}## is the velocity.

Then we define ##G_1(x, t)## as the anti-total-derivative (also known as the total-integration) of ##F(x, t)## with respect to ##x##. ##F(x, t)=\frac{d}{dx}G_1(x, t)\iff G_1(x, t)=\int_a^xF(x', t(x'))d_{full}x'+c##, where ##a## and ##c## are constants.

Next, consider the functions ##G_2(x, t)## and ##F(x, t)## such that ##F(x, t)=\frac{\partial}{\partial x}G_2(x, t)##.

Then we define ##G_2(x, t)## as the anti-partial-derivative (also known as the partial-integration) of ##F(x, t)## with respect to ##x##. ##F(x, t)=\frac{\partial}{\partial x}G_2(x, t)\iff G_2(x, t)=\int_{a(y)}^xF(x', t(x'))d_{partial}x'+c(y)##.

Example: Partial integration

Question: Is equation (2) below correct?

Consider a force ##F## that varies with displacement ##x## and time ##t##. In general, the acceleration ##a## and velocity ##v## of a particle subjected to such a force also vary with ##x## and ##t##.

##a=\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}\frac{dx}{dt}+\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}=v\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}+\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}##

Since ##F=ma=mv\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}+m\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}##,

##mv\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}=F-m\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}.\,\,\,\,\,## -------- (1)

Integrating (partial-integration) both sides wrt ##x##,

##\int mv\frac{\partial v}{\partial x} d_{partial}x=\int(F(x, t)-m\frac{\partial v}{\partial t})d_{partial}x##

##\frac{1}{2}mv^2=g(x, t)+h(t)\,\,\,\,\,## -------- (2) Is this correct?

where ##\frac{\partial}{\partial x}g(x, t)=F(x, t)-m\frac{\partial v(x, t)}{\partial t}##.

Example: Total differential

Question: I obtain below ##\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}=0##, which is inconsistent with ##F(x, t)##. What's wrong?

Multiplying ##dx## to both sides of (1),

##mv\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}dx=(F-m\frac{\partial v}{\partial t})dx##.

Adding ##mv\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}dt## to both sides,

##mv(\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}dx+\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}dt)=(F-m\frac{\partial v}{\partial t})dx+mv\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}dt.\,\,\,\,\,## -------- (3)

Since ##dv=\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}dx+\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}dt## and ##vdt=dx##,

##mvdv=(F-m\frac{\partial v}{\partial t})dx+m\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}dx=Fdx##.

Integrating both sides,

##\frac{1}{2}mv^2=\int F(x, t)dx##.

I believe the integration on the RHS should be a partial-integration. (But why?) Then

##\frac{1}{2}mv^2=G(x, t)+H(t)## (This is consistent with equation (2).)

where ##\frac{\partial}{\partial x}G(x, t)=F(x, t)##.

But simplifying the RHS of (3), we have

##mv\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}dx+mv\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}dt=Fdx+0dt##

By comparing terms with ##dt##, we deduce

##\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}=0##.

But this is inconsistent with a time-dependent force ##F(x, t)##. What's wrong?
Just a quick comment or two: Your force F you can write as a field that is a function of x and t, but the velocity is simply a function of t or a function of x where x=x(t). You can not separate the velocity with v=v(x,t). a=a(x,t)=F(x,t)/m seems to be ok, but a(x,t) is a two parameter function and really should not be confused with the actual acceleration a(t)=a(x(t),t) that occurs... editing... Your "force" F=F(x,t) is really a field function and not an actual force. The actual force experienced is F(t)=F(x(t),t). It would be good to even subscript the ## F_p(t) ## and ## a_p(t) ## so that it doesn't get confused with F(x,t) and a(x,t). I would also subscript the particle position ## x_p(t) ## and write e.g. ## F_p(t)=F(x_p(t),t) ## so that it doesn't get confused with the parameter x that is used in the field function ## F(x,t) ##.
 
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  • #3
Besides my response in post #2, you may find it of interest that a ## \vec{v}(\vec{x},t) ## formalism is used in plasma physics where the particles (e.g. electrons) have a density ## n(\vec{x},t) ## and a velocity ## \vec{v}(\vec{x},t) ## in a field ## E(\vec{x},t) ##. Derivatives (vector derivatives, etc.) are done on the ## n(\vec{x},t) ## and ## \vec{v}(\vec{x},t) ## in some applications. Sometimes, the density is written ## f(\vec{x},\vec{v},t) ## where the density function includes both position and velocity. Equations then can be written for ## f(\vec{x},\vec{v},t) ## in an electromagnetic field and look similar to those of a charged particle in an electromagnetic field, but are somewhat different including the sign of the terms. Anyway, you may find this application of interest...editing... I just looked this up in one of my plasma physics textbooks (author Ichimaru). The equation that describes the behavior of ## f(\vec{x},\vec{v},t) ## in an electromagnetic field is called the Vlasov equation.
 
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  • #4
Charles Link said:
a ## \vec{v}(\vec{x},t) ## formalism is used in plasma physics

So I guess equation (2) is correct?

##\frac{1}{2}mv^2=g(x(t), t)+h(t)##

That can be interpreted as the kinetic energy (or rather, the change in kinetic energy) depends on ##x(t)##, which is the path the particle takes.

But I'm still confused with why ##\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}=0## and how do we know if the integration ##\int dx## in the steps following equation (3) is a partial-integration. What if we express ##F(x, t(x))## as a function ##J(x)## of ##x## and then perform the integration ##\int dx##? That is,

##\frac{1}{2}mv^2=\int J(x)dx=K(x)+c##.
 
  • #5
Happiness said:
So I guess equation (2) is correct?

##\frac{1}{2}mv^2=g(x(t), t)+h(t)##

That can be interpreted as the kinetic energy (or rather, the change in kinetic energy) depends on ##x(t)##, which is the path the particle takes.

But I'm still confused with why ##\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}=0## and how do we know if the integration ##\int dx## in the steps following equation (3) is a partial-integration. What if we express ##F(x, t(x))## as a function ##J(x)## of ##x## and then perform the integration ##\int dx##? That is,

##\frac{1}{2}mv^2=\int J(x)dx=K(x)+c##.
The difficulty I think is your use of v(x,t). In the plasma physics, (and also in fluid flow), v(x,t) describes the velocity of the flow at (x,t). In the case of a single particle, it is incorrect to use this formalism. It seems you may be eager to use this mathematics in some form=it really is an interesting formalism. e.g. The derivative ## dn(\vec{x},t)/dt=\vec{v} \cdot \nabla n(\vec{x},t)+\frac{\partial{n(\vec{x},t)}}{\partial{t}} ## describes the rate of change of ## n ## with time when moving along with the fluid. If you want to research it further, you can find it being applied in some form in most introductory plasma physics textbooks.
 
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  • #6
Happiness said:
Consider a force FF that varies with displacement xx and time tt. In general, the acceleration aa and velocity vv of a particle subjected to such a force also vary with xx and tt.
nonsense
 
  • #7
wrobel said:
nonsense
It is not uncommon for an electric field to be described by ## \vec{E}=\vec{E}(\vec{x},t) ##. The force ## \vec{F} ## for a particle of charge ## Q ## is given by ## \vec{F}=Q \vec{E}(\vec{x},t) ##. The OP's mistake is to use equations that are designed for a fluid flow, such as ## \vec{v}=\vec{v}(\vec{x},t) ## to describe a single particle in which case it must be written ## \vec{v}=\vec{v}(t) ##.
 
  • #8
Charles Link said:
It is not uncommon for an electric field to
what exactly is not uncommon? to claim that the velocity of the particle depends upon its position in the space?
 
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  • #9
wrobel said:
what exactly is not uncommon? to claim that the velocity of the particle depends upon its position in the space?
I've been trying to explain to the OP how using v=v(x,t) is incorrect for a single particle, but it can be used in applications such as fluid flow It appears the OP is still on a learning curve with some of these concepts... v=v(t) can also be written as v=v(x) since x=x(t) for the particle (where x is the location of the particle at time t), but it is incorrect to write the velocity v=v(x,t) as a field equation except in the case of a fluid. I do think the OP, with a little further study, will be able to see why what he attempted to do simply is incorrect.
 

1. What is the difference between partial integration and total integration?

Partial integration involves integrating a function over a specific interval or range, while total integration involves integrating a function over its entire domain. In other words, partial integration focuses on a specific part of a function, while total integration considers the entire function.

2. How does the concept of time-dependent force relate to integration?

Time-dependent force refers to a force that changes over time, which can affect the integration process. When integrating a function with a time-dependent force, the force must be taken into account and may require using more advanced integration techniques, such as variable substitution or integration by parts.

3. Which type of integration is more commonly used in scientific research?

Partial integration is more commonly used in scientific research, as it allows for a more focused analysis of specific parts of a function. Total integration is often used in theoretical or mathematical studies, but may also be used in certain scientific applications.

4. Can partial and total integration be used interchangeably?

No, partial and total integration cannot be used interchangeably. Each type of integration serves a specific purpose and provides different information about a function. It is important to understand the differences between the two and when to use each one.

5. How does the choice between partial and total integration impact the accuracy of results?

The choice between partial and total integration can significantly impact the accuracy of results. Partial integration may provide more accurate results when analyzing a specific part of a function, while total integration may be necessary for a more comprehensive understanding of the function. The appropriate type of integration should be chosen based on the specific research question and goals.

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