Physics forum, I found you! (but not via Google) :D

[kaare_t]

How did you find PF?: Tried a new search-engine and voilà; found an interesting forum!

Hi all!

I'm glad to have found this forum, it seems to be lot's of great people and information here and I'm looking forward to dive into everything!

Interestingly my previous search-engine has never put Physics Forum high enough in the result-list, but I was testing a new search-engine (supposedly without advertising and pre-prioritation of the result-sets), and suddenly Physics Forum is amongst the top results!

Best wishes from Norway!

 

[PeroK]

 

[pines-demon]

How did you find PF?: Tried a new search-engine and voilà; found an interesting forum!

Interestingly my previous search-engine has never put Physics Forum high enough in the result-list, but I was testing a new search-engine (supposedly without advertising and pre-prioritation of the result-sets), and suddenly Physics Forum is amongst the top results!

Was the previous search-engine Google?

 

[kaare_t]

Was the previous search-engine Google?

Yes, you are correct.

As a note, I've been using Google for the past ~8 years, and always logged in, so it might be that it's my personal profile that didn't put Physics Forum higher. But I've always been searching for scientific/engineering information, documents, tests, papers and so on so I'm a bit surprised not seeing this before!

I'm not sure if it's against any policy here to post the search-engine I'm now testing ("advertising"), but to anyone wondering, PM me and I'll gladly share my info

 

[pines-demon]

Yes, you are correct.

As a note, I've been using Google for the past ~8 years, and always logged in, so it might be that it's my personal profile that didn't put Physics Forum higher. But I've always been searching for scientific/engineering information, documents, tests, papers and so on so I'm a bit surprised not seeing this before!

I'm not sure if it's against any policy here to post the search-engine I'm now testing ("advertising"), but to anyone wondering, PM me and I'll gladly share my info

I was wondering because I wonder what I miss by using Google. I have always known of the existence of PhysicsForums (even if I joined recently too). However I find that it gets harder and harder to search for websites free of bias related to past search prompts (I keep getting the same results that I already know exist) and localised results with preference to local language websites.

 

[Tom.G]

harder to search for websites free of bias related to past search prompts (I keep getting the same results that I already know exist)

The cure for that is to delete the Cookies that the website stores on your computer.
Most (all?) browsers have that capability. I'm using Mypal browser, which is a spin-off of Mozilla Firefox, which is a spin-off of, umm, err, oh well -- something else.

The Cookie access is thru the Tools menu of the browser.

This technique was especially useful with YouTube videos. I was tracking the war in Ukraine for a while and YouTube starting feeding me nothing but generic stock video and computer generated voice-overs devoid of content. Bye bye cookies and actual Information was suddenly available! Try it with your search engine.

Oh, and before I forget (again),


Cheers,
Tom

 

[kaare_t]

The cure for that is to delete the Cookies that the website stores on your computer.

Hi, and thanks,
I can only partially agree. Cookies can indeed also affect search-results, ads etc., but it's a local and actually only a small part of at least the issue I've experienced in the last couple of years. Cookies have far more impact on your browser-experience on a specific device.

I must emphasize I've been logged into my search-engine account all the time. The below assumes logged in functionality, and also that you change your computer often (or use more drastic ways of reaching the internet, like Tor or other). Trying to track individual computers using metadata is extensive both in the legal and illegal parts of the internet.

The (online) search-history and probably (if they do it) your following clicks to see results, are logged to your profile at your search-provider (given you are logged in). This is the whole point of "a better user experience" that the big players hold on to; "they help us get rid of unwanted garbage".

Basically, the big players give us the feeling that we are better at being objective when fetching results than algorithms. (It's a nice feeling ) Further they can argue that it's to help us remove "garbage". (also a great feeling ). In practice they sell more expensive ads because they can target individuals instead of masses (it's ok for me with some ads, as long as I don't pay so a good feeling ). But the issue occurs when valid results are filtered away from my view because of the above (not a good feeling )

I think a more floating question is if the big companies actually polarize people more, given that people with some direction actually gets a bit pushed further in the same direction by showing the users "preferred" results.

I'm not accusing companies or anyone of doing this on purpose, and I actually think it's an unwanted side-effect of the algorithms to optimise personal searches.

A similar known expression is: Confirmation bias
This is in essence what the big players try to do. Give you the results you want, because it's economical favourable. This is what they do, and what they get paid for.

This is quickly turning into quite a lot of text, sorry for that. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, but the above is in my opinion known functionalities at least in my previous job.

 

[phinds]

I think a more floating question is if the big companies actually polarize people more, given that people with some direction actually gets a bit pushed further in the same direction by showing the users "preferred" results.

I'm not accusing companies or anyone of doing this on purpose, and I actually think it's an unwanted side-effect of the algorithms to optimise personal searches.

It may be a side effect with some companies but I think most companies DO do this on purpose because it makes them more profitable. It is not a side-effect it is a planned result.

The most extreme example would be Fox News (right wing) and MSNBC (left wing), each of which presents a world view that is consistent with their audiences and usually opposed to each other. Users from each side tend to click on news stories that are presented by whichever company presents their world view and ignore news stories presented by the other. This is self reinforcing.

 

[jack action]

With Google, you can turn off the personalization of search results.

 

[kaare_t]

With Google, you can turn off the personalization of search results.

Hi, and thanks for the important input to the thread. I do agree that you can turn off features that Google use to modify the search-result-set. However, I don't think it's clear what Google actually presents me in the result-sets, or what is filtered. What is part of the personal profile, what is part of my country of origin (or maybe my localized IP), what is part of my region. Does my browser present metadata that is known to providers, but not part of my personal profile? What is a part of my personal profile (now disabled), and what is part of my "public" profile (probably not disabled)?

I must also add that it's not only personalized content in search-results. I understand and accept the market-demand economical model we all use, but this does enforce a way of getting money for the search-providers. If not provided directly, then indirectly. If indirectly, we are in the hands of regulations and laws to control the system and I'm simply stating that for me it's too complicated to understand what I actually get.

But I guess it comes down to a simple question of trust, with our economical model. Do I trust that my search-results are diverse or not (based on direct or indirect payment)?

It may be a side effect with some companies but I think most companies DO do this on purpose because it makes them more profitable. It is not a side-effect it is a planned result.

The most extreme example would be Fox News (right wing) and MSNBC (left wing), each of which presents a world view that is consistent with their audiences and usually opposed to each other. Users from each side tend to click on news stories that are presented by whichever company presents their world view and ignore news stories presented by the other. This is self reinforcing.

Thanks for your inputs! I agree with you However I think the question of "on purpose or not" is a bit on the side of the actual point here, which is to look into the importance of search-engine-result-sets. So I toned down this section in my post to avoid this turning into a discussion of "on purpose" (actually that would in itself probably be a bit polarizing to write ).

Right now, my issue is not if big-tech is doing this on purpose or not. I just want to find Physics Forum, even though I don't know it exists

 

[jack action]

Full disclosure: I use DuckDuckGo. I sometimes use Google if I can't find it on DDG (usually for images), but it happens less and less with time.