Random Walk of KMnO4 in Water: Why Do We Observe Non-Probabilistic Behavior?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the behavior of KMnO4 molecules in water and the discrepancies between observed diffusion and probabilistic predictions. When a single KMnO4 molecule is analyzed, the probability of it moving to the ends of the beaker is lower than it oscillating in place, suggesting a contradiction with the observed uniform color distribution in the solution. The conversation highlights the importance of considering the distribution of all molecules rather than focusing on individual probabilities, as the collective behavior leads to an even distribution over time. Additionally, boundary effects in finite systems like a beaker cannot be ignored, influencing the overall diffusion process. The need for a deeper understanding of concentration gradients and their impact on diffusion dynamics is emphasized.
Jigyasa
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
I had a question regarding the random walk problem in statistical mechanics. If I drop, say, one molecule of KMnO4 in a beaker of water, what we generally observe (spread of KMnO4 to the ends of the beaker) is different from what we should get from probabilistic assumptions. I must be going wrong somewhere in what I'm thinking but I can't point my finger at it.If I consider one molecule of KMnO4 , then the probability of it taking r steps to the right (or left), out of a total of N steps, is NCr *(1/2)^N (assuming unbiased random walk). For Avogadro's number of molecules, this probability is now raised to the power of Avogadro's number. This is maximum if r = N/2. Physically this means that the probability of the whole solution becoming coloured (KMnO4 traveling to the far ends ) is less than the probability of only a part of the solution becoming coloured (because if KMnO4 moves a total of10 steps, the probability of it moving 5 steps to the right and 5 steps to the left is maximum. In a sense, it oscillating is more probable ) But we almost always see that the whole solution turns purple in due course of time.Is it that the need to overcome concentration gradient dominates so KMNo4 has to reach the ends? If yes, then why do we use probabilities in statistical mechanics when systems may or may not be governed by probabilistic assumptions?

Or maybe I'm wrong in assuming this to be an unbiased random walk

Please help.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Jigyasa said:
For Avogadro's number of molecules, this probability is now raised to the power of Avogadro's number.
It is not clear what you are trying to do here. What you are actually computing is the probability of all molecules ending up at the same place, r steps away. This would typically not be what you want. What you would typically want is the distribution of the molecules, which will be the same as that of a single molecule.
 
If I only consider a single molecule, even then the probability of the molecule reaching the far ends of the beaker is coming out to be less than the probability of it oscillating somewhere in between (because NCr is max for r = N/2, this will always be the case assuming unbiased random walk of KMNO4)
 
Obviously. However, the limiting case as N becomes large is an even distribution.

Unless your beaker is infinite, you also cannot disregard boundary effects.
 
Hi there, im studying nanoscience at the university in Basel. Today I looked at the topic of intertial and non-inertial reference frames and the existence of fictitious forces. I understand that you call forces real in physics if they appear in interplay. Meaning that a force is real when there is the "actio" partner to the "reactio" partner. If this condition is not satisfied the force is not real. I also understand that if you specifically look at non-inertial reference frames you can...
I have recently been really interested in the derivation of Hamiltons Principle. On my research I found that with the term ##m \cdot \frac{d}{dt} (\frac{dr}{dt} \cdot \delta r) = 0## (1) one may derivate ##\delta \int (T - V) dt = 0## (2). The derivation itself I understood quiet good, but what I don't understand is where the equation (1) came from, because in my research it was just given and not derived from anywhere. Does anybody know where (1) comes from or why from it the...

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
3K
Replies
7
Views
4K
Replies
5
Views
4K
Replies
8
Views
5K
Back
Top