Solve Sign Issues in Elec. Potential, Energy, Force, Field, Work

In summary, the conversation discussed the concept of electric potential and potential energy, as well as the difference between a constant electric field and a point charge. The goal was to determine the correct sign information for the potential due to a point charge. After several hours of thought, the poster arrived at a presentation that solves the confusion. The conversation also covered the concepts of voltage and potential difference, and how they relate to potential energy and electric force. Finally, the incorrect approach of using $W = Fd$ in the case of a point charge was discussed, emphasizing the need for integration.
  • #1
Ackbach
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I had some trouble reconciling signs while attempting to teach electricity to my students here. The topic is electric potential, potential energy, electric force, electric field, and work. After much thought - several hours - I have finally come up with a presentation that solves the issues. Fundamentally, the issue was confusing a constant electric field with a point charge.

The goal of this post is to arrive at the correct sign information for the potential due to a point charge:
$$V=\frac{kq}{r}.$$
Background: suppose a ball rolls down a hill, with a starting height of $y_{i}$ and a stopping height of $y_{f}$. These heights are measured relative to a position of low potential energy. Then the work done on the ball by the gravitational force is given by $$W_{i\to f}=-\Delta U=-(U_{f}-U_{i})=-(mgy_{f}-mgy_{i})=mg(y_{i}-y_{f}).$$
Since $y_{i}>y_{f}$, the work done by the gravitational force on the ball is positive. This makes sense, because, as Young and Freedman say on page 195 of University Physics, 9th Edition, "When the body moves up, $y$ increases, the work done by the gravitational force is negative, and the gravitational potential energy increases ($\Delta U>0$). When the body moves down, $y$ decreases, the gravitational force does positive work, and the gravitational potential energy decreases ($\Delta U<0$)." So far so good.

Moving on to the electrical case. Suppose I have a uniform electric field of field strength $E$ pointed down. This could happen in the middle of a capacitor, e.g. By the definition of the electric field, the lines go away from positive charge, and towards negative charge. Hence, I have positive charges up top (say, on the top plate of a capacitor), and negative charges down below. Now suppose I have a positive test charge $q_{0}$ that is in this field pointed down. Because the test charge is positive, it's going to want to go towards the negative plate, so the electric field will be trying to move the test charge down - with the field. The electric force on the test charge $q_{0}$ is $F=q_{0}E$, a constant. Hence, the work done by the field on the test charge in moving the test charge from $a$ to $b$ is given by
$$W_{a\to b}=\int_{r_{a}}^{r_{b}}F\,dx=Fd=q_{0}Ed,$$
where $d$ is the distance from point $a$ to point $b$, and equals $|r_{a}-r_{b}|$.

If we measure distance $y$ from the negative plate, which is typical, then the potential energy is $U=q_{0}Ey$. The work done by the electric field in moving the test charge from point $a$ to point $b$ is
$$W_{a\to b}=-\Delta U=-(U_{b}-U_{a})=-(q_{0}Ey_{b}-q_{0}Ey_{a})
=q_{0}E(y_{a}-y_{b}).$$
Again, Young and Freedman on page 732:
"When $y_{a}$ is greater than $y_{b}$ ..., the positive test charge $q_{0}$ moves downward, in the same direction as $\overset{\to}{\mathbf{\it{E}}}$; the displacement is in the same direction as the force $\overset{\to}{\mathbf{\it{F}}}=q_{0}\overset{\to}{\mathbf{\it{E}}},$ so the field does positive work and $U$ decreases."

Now we introduce the electric potential $V_{a}$ at a point $a$. This is NOT voltage, but electric potential. We define it to be the potential energy per unit charge: $V_{a}=U_{a}/q_{0}$. Here $U_{a}$ is the potential energy at point $a$ relative to some zero point, and $q_{0}$ is the test charge at point $a$. If we wish to write the work as a function of $V$, we divide through by the test charge to obtain
$$ \frac{W_{a \to b}}{q_{0}}=- \frac{ \Delta U}{q_{0}}=
- \left( \frac{U_{b}}{q_{0}}- \frac{U_{a}}{q_{0}}\right)=
-(V_{b}-V_{a})= V_{a}-V_{b}.$$

Finally, we introduce the concept of voltage, which is a potential difference. That is,
$$V_{ab}:=V_{a}-V_{b},$$
and we say that $V_{ab}$ is the potential of $a$ with respect to $b$. Hence,
$$ \frac{W_{a \to b}}{q_{0}}=V_{ab}.$$

Now we change our physical setup. Up until now, we have considered a constant electric field $E$. Suppose, instead, that we have a single point charge $q$ generating an electric field. The force it exerts on a test charge $q_{0}$ is given by the usual Coulomb's Law formula
$$F_{r}=\frac{kqq_{0}}{r^{2}}.$$
Following the procedure before, we must integrate to find the work done in moving a test charge from point $a$ to point $b$:
$$W_{a \to b}= \int_{r_{a}}^{r_{b}}F_{r} \,dr
=kqq_{0} \int_{r_{a}}^{r_{b}}r^{-2} \,dr
=kqq_{0} \left( \frac{1}{r_{a}}- \frac{1}{r_{b}} \right).$$
Recall that we still have $W=- \Delta U$, and hence it must be that
$$-(U_{b} - U_{a}) = U_{a}-U_{b}=kqq_{0} \left( \frac{1}{r_{a}}- \frac{1}{r_{b}} \right).$$
Hence, it is consistent to write that
$$U_{a}= \frac{kqq_{0}}{r_{a}} \quad \text{and} \quad
U_{b}= \frac{kqq_{0}}{r_{b}}.$$
So, from this, we generalize and claim that the potential energy at a test charge $q_{0}$ that is $r$ away from a charge $q$ is $U=kqq_{0}/r$.

Since the potential is $V=U/q_{0}$, we divide this equation by $q_{0}$ to obtain
$$V= \frac{kq}{r},$$
which was the goal of this exercise.

The incorrect thing to do in the point charge case is to say this:
$$W_{a \to b} = Fd = q_{0} E d,$$
but also
$$W_{a \to b}=- \Delta U=-q_{0}(V_{b}-V_{a}) = -q_{0}V_{ba}.$$
Hence,
$$-q_{0}V_{ba}= q_{0} E d \implies V_{ba}=-Ed=-\frac{kq}{r^{2}}\,d=-\frac{kq}{r}.$$
The problem with this, of course, is that the force is not constant in the point charge case, and hence the equation $W = F d$ doesn't work. You must integrate, which yields the minus sign.
 
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  • #3
Greg Bernhardt said:
Thanks @Ackbach, what math forum can we move this to?
STEM Educators and Teachers.
 

1. What is the meaning of "sign issues" in relation to electric potential, energy, force, field, and work?

"Sign issues" refer to the positive or negative sign associated with a physical quantity in a given context. In the case of electric potential, energy, force, field, and work, the sign indicates the direction and magnitude of the quantity. It is important to pay attention to sign conventions in these concepts to ensure accurate calculations and interpretations.

2. How can sign issues arise in calculations involving electric potential, energy, force, field, and work?

Sign issues can arise in calculations when the direction or orientation of the system is not clearly defined, when different sign conventions are used, or when the units of measurement are not consistent. Additionally, sign issues may arise when dealing with vectors, where the direction of the quantity can change the sign of the value.

3. How can I identify and address sign issues in my calculations?

To identify and address sign issues, it is important to carefully define the system and its orientation, use consistent sign conventions and units, and pay attention to the direction of vectors. It can also be helpful to double-check calculations and use diagrams or visual aids to better understand the physical situation.

4. Can sign issues affect the accuracy of my results?

Yes, sign issues can significantly affect the accuracy of your results. Even small changes in sign can lead to large discrepancies in calculations, especially in situations involving vectors. Therefore, it is crucial to properly address and account for sign issues in order to obtain accurate and reliable results.

5. Are there any tips for avoiding sign issues when working with electric potential, energy, force, field, and work?

Some tips for avoiding sign issues include carefully defining the system and its orientation, using consistent sign conventions and units, double-checking calculations, and using diagrams or visual aids to better understand the physical situation. It can also be helpful to practice and familiarize yourself with the concepts and equations to better recognize potential sign issues.

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