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cdux
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If both numbers approach 0 but one does not know their exact state, doesn't that mean the result can be either 1 or anything around it up to -∞and +∞? Does that in turn mean that 0/0 = Everything?
cdux said:If both numbers approach 0 but one does not know their exact state, doesn't that mean the result can be either 1 or anything around it up to -∞ and +∞? Does that in turn mean that 0/0 = Everything?
cdux said:I could further describe it as a cloud of numbers around 1. I wonder if it has Quantum Mechanical implications.
What was your purpose in posting this? You ask a question but then ignore all responses. Your "mystical" ideas on what 0/0 means have nothing to do with mathematics.cdux said:If both numbers approach 0 but one does not know their exact state, doesn't that mean the result can be either 1 or anything around it up to -∞and +∞? Does that in turn mean that 0/0 = Everything?
We can't define it uniquely. Any number ##x## satisfies ##0x=0##, so there isn't a unique value to give for ##\frac{0}{0}##. It has nothing to do with a "cloud" or "buzzing." It's indeterminate.cdux said:If both numbers approach 0 but one does not know their exact state, doesn't that mean the result can be either 1 or anything around it up to -∞and +∞? Does that in turn mean that 0/0 = Everything?
Better: It's indeterminate, not undefined.Mandelbroth said:We can't define it. Any number ##x## satisfies ##0x=0##, so there isn't a unique value to give for ##\frac{0}{0}##. Thus, it's undefined. It has nothing to do with a "cloud" or "buzzing." It's undefined.
Yes. Pardon me. I meant to say indeterminate.D H said:Better: It's indeterminate, not undefined.
Compare ##0x=1## with your ##0x=0##. Every number ##x## satisfies the latter expression, but none satisfies the former. Thus ##\frac 1 0## is undefined but ##\frac 0 0## is indeterminate.
cdux said:If both numbers approach 0 but one does not know their exact state, doesn't that mean the result can be either 1 or anything around it up to -∞and +∞? Does that in turn mean that 0/0 = Everything?
micromass said:I see no insults here. Please report anything you see as an insult and do not respond in the thread about them. Let's keep this on topic.
Also, cdux, you seem ot have your mind already made up. Did you ask this because you didn't know the answer but wanted input from other people? Or did you make this to advance your own theory?
cdux said:For the second time, I have no Messiah complexes. An idea can be expressed explicitly, do I really have to add tons of text apologizing "It may be wrong guys, help me", to avoid being treated like having Narcissist Personality Disorder?
cdux said:They are helpful, though to be honest it's mainly on being rigorous, which is helpful of course.
It's still sane to say that 0 x Anything = 0 in those conditions so 0 / 0 = Anything pans out.
But excuse me while I don't look very closely to responses that are basically sarcastic.
No, your latter equation does NOT pan out. Division by zero is not defined, so you can't get from 0*x = 0 to 0/0 = x.cdux said:They are helpful, though to be honest it's mainly on being rigorous, which is helpful of course.
It's still sane to say that 0 x Anything = 0 in those conditions so 0 / 0 = Anything pans out.
Mark44 said:you can't get from 0*x = 0 to 0/0 = x.
cdux said:It's still sane to say that 0 x Anything = 0 in those conditions so 0 / 0 = Anything pans out.
Mark44 said:No, your latter equation does NOT pan out. Division by zero is not defined, so you can't get from 0*x = 0 to 0/0 = x.
cdux said:I didn't. The reasoning was different.
Mark44 said:you can't get from 0*x = 0 to 0/0 = x.
cdux said:I didn't. The reasoning was different.
cdux said:It's still sane to say that 0 x Anything = 0 in those conditions so 0 / 0 = Anything pans out.
Mark44 said:This is what you said:
I paraphrased what you wrote (Anything --> x). It doesn't matter what your reasoning is. You started with 0x = 0 and concluded that 0/0 = x, so you apparently divided both sides of the first equation by zero. This is not valid to do.
Stephen Tashi said:If we interpret "a/b" as notation for an algorithm that says "To compute a/b = c find the unique number c such that a = bc and we interpret "0/0" as an abbreviation for setting a = 0 and b = 0 in that algorithm, then we can rationally discuss whether that algorithm can product a unique output.
cdux said:Is it not possible to produce a fuzzy output? My understanding is that a/b with them independently approaching zero, will produce a fuzzy 'anything' number around 1. PS. If they are equal it will produce 1.
Nugatory said:That process does not produce a fuzzy output, it produces an exact result. What that result will be depends on exactly how ##a## and ##b## approach zero - this is the point that curious3141 made way back in post #2 where he describes how to assign a value to ##a/b## when ##a## and ##b## are independently approaching zero.
(BTW, the value need not be especially near one; depending on how ##a## and ##b## approach zero, we can get anything between ##-∞## and ##+∞##.)
cdux said:Both approach towards zero so they will both tend to be two very small numbers. This points to a similarity. They are not arbitrary, they are specifically very small. Hence it comes to reason that while the result can be anything between -∞ and +∞, they will have a bias towards 1 rather than ∞.
No, and you have been told this repeatedly. Division, when it is defined, produces a single result. Furthermore, division by zero is undefined.cdux said:Is it not possible to produce a fuzzy output?
Then your understanding is flawed.cdux said:My understanding is that a/b with them independently approaching zero, will produce a fuzzy 'anything' number around 1.
If they both approach zero at the same rate, the limit will be zero.cdux said:PS. If they are equal it will produce 1.
Nonsense.cdux said:A weird postulation this may produce is that if that 'anything' has a tendency to be closer to 1 rather that infinities then it might point towards why physical numbers tend to not be infinite.
Yes, of course. That's what "approaching zero" means, but again, what's important is how quickly one or the other (or both) are approaching zero.cdux said:Both approach towards zero so they will both tend to be two very small numbers.
No.cdux said:This points to a similarity. They are not arbitrary, they are specifically very small. Hence it comes to reason that while the result can be anything between -∞ and +∞, they will have a bias towards 1 rather than ∞.
No, absolutely not, and for the same reason I gave above. The important consideration is not that both numbers are getting arbitrarily large, but rather, how quickly one or the other (or both) is getting large.cdux said:The same would be true for ∞/∞.
cdux said:Both approach towards zero so they will both tend to be two very small numbers. This points to a similarity. They are not arbitrary, they are specifically very small. Hence it comes to reason that while the result can be anything between -∞ and +∞, they will have a bias towards 1 rather than ∞.
The result of 0/0 is undefined. This is because division by zero is not a valid mathematical operation.
This is because division by zero leads to contradictory or infinite results, making it impossible to determine a specific value.
No, it cannot. While in some cases, dividing a number by itself can result in 1, this does not apply to 0/0. As mentioned before, division by zero is undefined and cannot be assigned a specific value.
No, there is not. Division by zero will always result in an undefined value, regardless of any other factors or variables involved.
The concept of infinity is often brought up when discussing 0/0 because division by zero can lead to infinite results. However, this does not mean that 0/0 equals infinity. Instead, it highlights the fact that division by zero is not a valid operation and can lead to unpredictable or infinite outcomes.