Hi jeff,
Suggesting ‘your friend’ is no longer ‘your friend’ after having one’s neurons replaced is a very duelistic perspective. Who is this ‘you’ being referred to? Even a person’s neurons are replaced, bit by bit, by the body’s own biological mechanisms, many times, over the course of a...
Sorry, I'm getting that thought experiment (TE) mixed with another. You're right. This TE wasn't intended to prove an indeterminate mechanism is not needed for FW. This thought experiment shows that an indeterminate mechanism is not a prerequisite for consciousness. My mistake.
From the...
Free will is a feature of consciousness which allows a conscious individual the ability to decide between various courses of action. If consciousness doesn't exist, free will can't exist regardless of determinate or indeterminate mechanisms. The question then is, "Can determinate and...
I'd be interested in your reasoning. I suspect there's been quite a bit written on this topic. If you or anyone has a reference that would be best.
Granted, having a truly random mechanism such as radioactive decay provides an indeterminate future, but I don't think one can say it provides...
Mf
Movinging finger, thanks for that. Yes, you're absolutely right. Each separate world has an independent and conscious observer unable to interact with any other world.
I see I didn't explain the punchline very well unfortunately, because that wasn't what I was getting at. I'll try to...
Tournesol
Tournesol, thanks for the link. I read it through and found it fascinating. Do you think quantum mechanical mechanisms in the brain are generally disregarded or do you think the debate between classical versus quantum mechanical mechanisms in the brain has yet to be decided? That...
There are a few threads about determinism here and a few about interpretations of quantum mechanics, so I thought I'd start one that combines them.
Determinism is nicely defined by the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy as:
Ref: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/determinism-causal/"...
Arguing from the computationalist side, it isn't too difficult to deal with this. We simply assume all chips that replace the neurons are fully interconnected. In other words, we connect the new chip to ALL neurons since we can't (physically) create new connections. The chip only uses the...
Moonbear. Thanks for the feedback. You're correct of course, not all brain cells contribute to consciousness. There's a discussion of that on another thread regarding NCC's. Regardless, the thought experiment originally proposed by Chalmers replaces a brain cell with a chip and asks the...
Jim, thanks for the feedback. I take it that you feel the thought experiment provides a convincing argument for the concept that a brain made of computer chips and structured as neurons are structured can provide for the phenomenon of consciousness.
I think the thought experiment has...
Thanks for the feedback, and sorry it took so long to respond. I've had to do some additional research on this and that rolled into a vacation.
I see your point about trying to duplicate the function of a neuron. You're correct about that, and that's what Chalmer's point is too. So:
-...
I'll agree that behavior is a valid method of determining whether or not a person is conscious, but I'd have to disagree that the best you can do is infer consciousness from behavior. This concern that you can't know except from behavior (and others phenomena like it) are based on a fear I'll...
Just a note to clarify the direction of this thread. The intent of this thread is not to disprove strong AI. It seems the neuron/chip replacement thought experiment is generally a highly regarded thought experiment used to argue for strong AI by proponents such as Dennett, Chalmers and others...
H, thanks for the clarification. Just to be sure we're all speaking about the same thing, I'd like to clarify my interpretation to what Searle says here:
He's saying, and it is my understanding, that this means the appropriately programmed computer is consciously aware like a human is. It...