Incredible Difference in Ant Sizes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the size differences among various ant species, particularly focusing on their weights and the implications of their venom. Participants share personal experiences with ants in different regions, including Bali and Tasmania, and explore the effects of ant bites and stings, as well as related anecdotes about other venomous creatures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that ants in Bali are one millimeter long and estimates their weight to be one hundred micrograms, while larger ants can weigh significantly more.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the size of the ant may not be the most important factor, sharing a personal account of the painful venom from jack jumper ants in Tasmania.
  • Details about the venom's effects and the potential for anaphylaxis from jack jumper bites are discussed, highlighting the dangers associated with these ants.
  • Participants mention the ecological interactions between jack jumper ants and redback spiders, as well as the role of huntsman spiders in controlling ant populations.
  • Irukandji syndrome is introduced, with a participant recounting the story of its discovery by Dr. Jack Barnes, who stung himself and his son to identify the jellyfish responsible for the syndrome.
  • References are made to literary works, including "Leiningen Versus the Ants," which draws parallels between ant behavior and human experiences.
  • A participant compares the weight difference between ants and larger animals, noting a factor of 60,000, likening it to the difference between a mouse and an elephant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance of ant size versus venom potency, with some focusing on personal experiences with pain and danger, while others provide technical details about ant biology and venom effects. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the relative importance of these factors.

Contextual Notes

Some claims about venom effects and ant sizes depend on specific regional contexts and personal experiences, which may not be universally applicable. The discussion includes anecdotal evidence and speculative statements that are not verified.

Hornbein
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Here in Bali the ants in my kitchen are one millimeter long. I figure this means they weigh one hundred micrograms.

There are other ants here that are eight millimeters long, a fairly normal size. They are 500 times the weight of the minuscule ants.

I read that the biggest African ants are four centimeters. 60,000 times the mass of the minuscule ones. Six grams.
 
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I don't think it is the size of the ant that matters.

Here in Tasmania, we have those nervous little jack jumper ants. Their venom causes the purest pain I have ever felt, not like a pin prick, but pain that spreads to fill the volume of your body, it is almost an anaesthetic, as no other pain can compete. The venom is immunogenic, so don't make a habit of getting bitten. Anaphylaxis following a jack jumper bite typically kills one person every 5 years in Australia. You may have less than 20 minutes, so keep that EpiPen handy.

The jack jumper ant holds an interesting record. The male has only one chromosome, but it really puts that one chromosome to efficient use, synthesising that incredible venom.

Luckily, we also have redback spiders that prey on jack jumper broods. After a redback bite, the redback venom becomes progressively more painful over 24 hours. It moves through and concentrates in your lymph nodes, so you should accept the antivenom as soon as it is offered. The redback venom will not kill you, but without the antivenom, you will wish that it had.

Any jack jumpers that come down from the hill, get taken out by the redbacks in my rock garden. Any redbacks that come into the house get taken out by those huge furry huntsman spiders, friends that I encourage to protect me in my home and in my car.

This message has been brought to you on behalf of the Tasmanian tourist bureau.
 
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The Bali ants never bite me, even while being evicted from a nest in a shoe.
 
Their sting might be worse than their bite.
 
"How did he die doc?"

"Any one of five ways. His skull was fractured, his chest was crushed, his neck and back were broken, and he had enough formic acid in him to kill twenty men!"
 
Baluncore said:
I don't think it is the size of the ant that matters.

Here in Tasmania, we have those nervous little jack jumper ants. Their venom causes the purest pain I have ever felt, not like a pin prick, but pain that spreads to fill the volume of your body, it is almost an anaesthetic, as no other pain can compete. The venom is immunogenic, so don't make a habit of getting bitten. Anaphylaxis following a jack jumper bite typically kills one person every 5 years in Australia. You may have less than 20 minutes, so keep that EpiPen handy.

The jack jumper ant holds an interesting record. The male has only one chromosome, but it really puts that one chromosome to efficient use, synthesising that incredible venom.

Luckily, we also have redback spiders that prey on jack jumper broods. After a redback bite, the redback venom becomes progressively more painful over 24 hours. It moves through and concentrates in your lymph nodes, so you should accept the antivenom as soon as it is offered. The redback venom will not kill you, but without the antivenom, you will wish that it had.

Any jack jumpers that come down from the hill, get taken out by the redbacks in my rock garden. Any redbacks that come into the house get taken out by those huge furry huntsman spiders, friends that I encourage to protect me in my home and in my car.

This message has been brought to you on behalf of the Tasmanian tourist bureau.
I'm sure you took it from pp 344 from volume 18 of "Venomously Non-Deadly But Excruciatingly Painful Critters of Tasmania".
 
Irukandji Syndrome
[...]

The syndrome is classically associated with a sense of “impending doom.” In general, most cases will improve within 6 to 24 hours, but can sometimes recur. In severe cases, cardiac failure with pulmonary edema can occur by the proposed mechanisms outlined previously and can lead to respiratory failure. Two reported deaths by intracranial hemorrhage, secondary to severe hypertension, have also been observed.

[...]

I've always loved the "father of the year" story associated with it's "discovery"

How Cairns doctor Jack Barnes discovered Irukandji jellyfish by stinging himself and his 10-year-old son


Doctors had been puzzled for decades about a debilitating illness afflicting North Queensland beachgoers in summer.

Called Irukandji syndrome after a local Aboriginal tribe, victims never saw what stung them in the water but were left writhing around for hours in agonising pain. After a protracted hunt, Dr Barnes finally had the likely suspect in hand and wanted to seek definitive proof this was the creature responsible. He resolved to sting himself and a volunteer from the sizeable crowd,

But no-one was keen.

Except for a 10-year-old boy — his son, Nick.
 
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sbrothy said:
I'm sure you took it from pp 344 from volume 18 of "Venomously Non-Deadly But Excruciatingly Painful Critters of Tasmania".
That is still unpublished, but in production, where did you find a copy ?
 
  • #10
The ant story that was all the rage back then.
Leiningen Versus the Ants
( plantation, army ants, moats, fire, flooding, bitten to the core )

 
  • #12
A factor of 60000 is about the difference between a mouse and an elephant.
 
  • #13
Today there have arrived in my kitchen even smaller ants. I'd guess about 700 micrometers in length. 30 micrograms! More energetic than the millimeter variety, they scamper about with extreme speed relative to their size.
 
  • #14
Hornbein said:
Today there have arrived in my kitchen even smaller ants. I'd guess about 700 micrometers in length. 30 micrograms!
I guess you have sugar ants, tiny and harmless, but if you leave food crumbs or spilled drink, a line of them will form. What colour are they?

Now look for the Giant Forest Ant to set the upper size range, 21mm for normal workers, and 28mm for soldiers.

I guess you would tell us if you stumbled into a nest of fire ants.

Common Bali ants are listed as:

Golden Spiny Ant (Polyrhachis sp.): Often referred to by travelers as "gold ants" or "silver ants," these are large, striking ants with metallic-looking hairs on their abdomens and protective spines.

Weaver Ant (Oecophylla smaragdina): Also known locally as "red ants" or "green ants," they are famous for stitching leaves together with larval silk to build nests in trees. They are aggressive and deliver a painful, acidic bite.

Yellow Crazy Ant (Anoplolepis gracilipes): An invasive species known for its erratic, high-speed movement and long legs. They are frequently found in open areas and near human dwellings.

Fire Ant (Solenopsis sp.): These small, reddish-brown ants are common in grassy and sandy areas. They are known for delivering a burning sting that can cause blisters.

Sugar Ant (Monomorium sp.): These tiny, translucent or dark ants are the most frequent visitors in Bali’s villas and hotel rooms, attracted to any food or sweet spills left out.

Carpenter Ant (Camponotus sp.): Large ants that often nest in wood or structural components of buildings.

Giant Forest Ant (Dinomyrmex gigas): One of the world's largest ant species, native to Southeast Asia, it can occasionally be seen foraging at night in forested regions.
 
  • #15
The ants here are pretty ordinary except for their minusculity. The tiny ants are black.

My ants never bite me, even when being evicted from nests. Recently they built a nest right next to a kitchen counter. That was too much of a presence so I surrounded it with dish soap, which they can't cross.

I think the ants don't dig in the ground -- it rains too much. I suspect they live in trees and bushes instead. I once saw a vid of some Japanese tourists to the USA desert fascinated by an ant hill. I think they had never seen one before.

Once the ants built a nest on a coconut frond by gluing the leaves together to form a scrotum-shaped thing. How on Earth could such a behavior evolve? But they weren't aggressive.
 
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  • #17
Supposedly the bullet ant has the most painful sting of any insect

 
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