Magnetism and Magnetic Force Studies

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of magnetism and magnetic forces, specifically exploring the interactions between magnetic objects without relying on the effects of moving charges. Participants are interested in theoretical frameworks, potential existence of magnetic monopoles, and the implications of established electromagnetic theories.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about research that quantifies interactions between magnetic objects without referencing moving charges.
  • One participant notes that classical electrodynamics, particularly Maxwell's equations, forbids magnetic monopoles, yet suggests that inconsistencies in the equations might imply their existence.
  • Another participant expresses a belief in strictly magnetic sources and a desire to avoid electrical parameters in their work.
  • References to Paul Dirac's ideas on magnetic monopoles and John Wheeler's hypothetical connections to wormholes are mentioned as avenues for further exploration.
  • One participant argues that it is unlikely to work solely with magnetic sources without involving electric currents, citing the dependence of the Faraday tensor on electric charge current density.
  • There is a discussion about the perception of magnetic and electric fields by different observers, emphasizing that a pure magnetic field can appear mixed with electric fields due to relative motion.
  • Another participant reinforces that the transformation of fields does not necessitate a source, relating it to the dual of the Faraday tensor.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence of magnetic monopoles and the feasibility of working with magnetic sources independently of electric parameters. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in current understanding, particularly regarding the definitions and implications of magnetic monopoles and the conditions under which magnetic fields can be treated independently of electric fields.

kheorman
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Magnetism and magnetic force are typically explained by the resultant effect on moving charges. Is anyone aware of any reseach, studies or literature that quantifies the interactive forces between two or more magnetic objects without utilizing the effect on moving charges to explain interactive relationships?
 
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I know that in classically electrodynamics there is a law (one of the four Maxwell's equations) that strictly forbids the existence of magnetic monopoles. Many people interpret this as the non-existence of strictly magnetic sources. This may or may not be true. It seems reasonable

However, the Faraday tensor and its dual provide one with Maxwell's equations, and there is an inconsistency in the divergence of these two related objects, which some think suggests the existence of magnetic monopoles.

What I would do, if I were so inclined, is to search for papers using keywords "magnetic monopole."
 
I'll try the search. While I am not pursuing magnetic monopoles in my research, I due believe in the existence of strictly magnetic sources. I would like to work like to be able to work without having to deal with electrical parameters and units. My original posting was an effort not to recreate a wheel that may already exist.
 
In accordance with what Turin posted, do some research on some ideas that Paul Dirac had on what magnetic monopoles would be like if in fact they exist in nature. I think John Wheeler even tried to tie the (also very hypothetical) idea of wormholes in with Dirac's hypothetical monopole.
 
kheorman said:
I would like to work like to be able to work without having to deal with electrical parameters and units.
If your goal is to be able to use a magnetic source instead of electric currents and such, then I am 99.9% convinced that you are out of luck. The Faraday tensor is intimately driven by the ELECTRIC charge current density 4-vector in the well established/experimentally demonstrated E&M theory. There would be special cases (some magnetostatics) in which you could probably get away with this, but not generally.

Of course, you could "conveniently define" a system of units so that all the parameters are unity, if that's all you're after.
 
And

I believe it is the case that even if you have a pure magnetic field in some region, as seen by some certain observer, another observer moving relative to that one will see a mixture of magnetic and electric fields.
 
Janitor said:
I believe it is the case that even if you have a pure magnetic field in some region, as seen by some certain observer, another observer moving relative to that one will see a mixture of magnetic and electric fields.
Yes, but (fortunately for kheorman) this does not require a source. This is just a consequence of a coordinate transformation that results in the appearance of nontrivial oblique components in the dual of the Faraday tensor.
 

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