Is it time to keep blogs homework-free?

[tiny-tim]

keep blogs homework-free!

The blogs are starting to fill up with homework problems which nobody will answer.

One new blogger has even almost been put off by this:

Well it looks like these blogs are going for questions about physics, as I see it. Nobody wants to talk about their personal lives, so I feel a bit awkward talking about mine.

So could there be a warning notice on the Post to your Blog page, something like: "Please do not post your homework questions here, start a new thread in the https://www.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=152", where everyone will see it"?

 

[Evo]

Blogs are for personal notes, poems, and stories, certainly not for homework or for asking questions.

 

[tiny-tim]

disable blogging for members with zero posts?

Blogs are for personal notes, poems, and stories, certainly not for homework or for asking questions.

The PF blogiverse is being cluttered up by PF members with no posts asking homework questions … which nobody answers!

They don't understand that posting in the forum is actually far more likely to get replies. And they give up, and probably complain about PF.

It would be better for them if they were forced to post in the forum.

May I suggest that blogging be disabled for members with zero posts?

 

[Moonbear]

Quite frankly, if someone isn't bright enough to figure out fairly quickly that the lack of responses to questions posted in blogs is an indicator that blogs are the wrong place to ask when we have a forum specifically dedicated to HW Help, then there are likely bigger underlying reasons for their difficulty in school than a couple of homework problems stumping them.

 

[ZapperZ]

The PF blogiverse is being cluttered up by PF members with no posts asking homework questions … which nobody answers!

They don't understand that posting in the forum is actually far more likely to get replies. And they give up, and probably complain about PF.

It would be better for them if they were forced to post in the forum.

May I suggest that blogging be disabled for members with zero posts?

Some time you simply cannot save people from their own stupi... er... lack of understanding. Even when we have a clear HW/Coursework forum at close to the TOP of the forum list, and even with Stickies in the forum telling people not to post HW-type problems in the main physics forums, there are still people who managed to ignore all that. So if their intention is to get help, and they somehow think posting in their PF Blog is the way to do it, they'll learn soon enough.

Note that there are many who do "post-and-run", i.e. they don't come back. So where they post that one question really makes no difference.

Zz.

 

[Redbelly98]

May I suggest that blogging be disabled for members with zero posts?

That would help. Doing a quick count, I found 6 out of 8 recent homework blogs were by members with 0 posts. Or we might want to wait until somebody has made some minimum number of posts too.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I will look into posting a little notice.

 

[Gokul43201]

May I suggest that blogging be disabled for members with zero posts?

Greg, what about the idea of a minimum post count for blogging? I think it would be good. Do you want folks to sign up for PF, only to use it as free space for a blog?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Greg, what about the idea of a minimum post count for blogging? I think it would be good. Do you want folks to sign up for PF, only to use it as free space for a blog?

It's a good one, but not possible right now.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

ok I've added a little "no homework" note. let me know if more drastic measures need to be used :)

 

[Evo]

Thanks Greg, hopefully now new members will post in the forum where there is some hope of them getting a response.

Thanks to tiny-tim for bringing this up as the number of new members asking for help in their blogs was steadily increasing. I would occasionally wander in there and tell them to re-post in the Homework Help forum along with a link taking them there, but it was too time consumming to try to find all of them.

 

[Wecht]

Personally, I think that people might not be able to find the proper forum for homework help; I can't!

 

[Defennder]

Personally, I think that people might not be able to find the proper forum for homework help; I can't!

Are you kidding? The second forum from the top is listed "Homework and Coursework ..."

 

[tribdog]

Personally, I think that people might not be able to find the proper forum for homework help; I can't!

I know! For example, what if I had some Homework & Coursework Questions of a Engineering, Comp Sci, & Technology nature?

 

[Wecht]

Actually, my point was that I couldn't find a readily available list of forums, so could you be more specific?

 

[Evo]

Actually, my point was that I couldn't find a readily available list of forums, so could you be more specific?

I agree Wecht, it depends on how you find this forum and if your first view is of the main page. If you are brought here by a search link, it may not be apparent, and I appreciate your efforts to help. We so badly need more people to help in the Homework Forums. I will take your feedback to the other mentors. Right now we are trying to find more ways to help our members that help in Homework, and input would be appreciated.

 

[ZapperZ]

I agree Wecht, it depends on how you find this forum and if your first view is of the main page. If you are brought here by a search link, it may not be apparent, and I appreciate your efforts to help. We so badly need more people to help in the Homework Forums. I will take your feedback to the other mentors. Right now we are trying to find more ways to help our members that help in Homework, and input would be appreciated.

Er.. while it is true that someone could find a thread directly after a google search, that's not what one will see when one first registers to the forum. You will still see the main page, and has been pointed out, the Homework forum is listed prominently close to the top of the list of all forums here on PF. Someone who has never registered to PF and finding a thread directly cannot post on here, so the question of not seeing the full list of forums does not apply at all. Everyone who can post will have to register that first time, and that's when the full list of forums will be seen.

In other words, I see no excuse for not noticing the HW/coursework forum that appears almost at the top of all our forums list.

Zz.

 

[Redbelly98]

There may be no excuse for it, but it happens nonetheless.

We could take either of two mindsets:

1. People should be able to figure out where homework questions go, so we won't worry about the small percentage who post them in blogs, or

2. Having a bunch of homework questions in the blog section is a problem because _______(?), so let's do what we can to stop it.

I put a blank above because I'm not sure how this impacts other users negatively. Do some people like to read what others are blogging about, and it's a nuisance to wade through all the homework posts to find a real blog? Does the "clutter" present some administrative difficulty?

ok I've added a little "no homework" note. let me know if more drastic measures need to be used :)

Greg, could the "NO HOMEWORK!" note contain a link to the homework section? Something like:

Click https://www.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=152" to post homework questions. Do not post homework in the blog.

 

[Moonbear]

I can understand someone getting a bit confused at first by the forum structure, and with the HW forums at the top, somehow mistaking all the other forums as "subforums" of HW help or something like that, and putting their HW into the subject forums instead, especially the first time. But, once you're registered and staring at the main index page, it's REALLY hard to get to the blogs, so you have to be working pretty hard to not look where you're going to get there and completely ignore the HW forums. Heck, I still get lost on the way to the blogs. It's one of the last places someone would stumble.

On the other hand, redbelly's comment is relevant too. Does it hurt anyone to have people writing HW in their blogs? For all we know, maybe they're not really asking about the HW question, but are using their blog to figure out how to format things with LaTex now that LaTex is enabled. I think the important thing, for consistency's sake, is to not RESPOND to the HW questions there. In other words, don't give people the impression that if they skip the HW forums, they're going to get specialized attention in their blog.

 

[Redbelly98]

The way we're set up, getting to the blogs is much much easier than getting to the homework section. https://www.physicsforums.com/blog.php" is the 3rd link that appears at the top of the page. And it appears at the top of every page in PF! Unlike the Homework link, which only appears on the main page (and farther down than the Blog link).

 

[Evo]

I can understand someone getting a bit confused at first by the forum structure, and with the HW forums at the top, somehow mistaking all the other forums as "subforums" of HW help or something like that, and putting their HW into the subject forums instead, especially the first time. But, once you're registered and staring at the main index page, it's REALLY hard to get to the blogs, so you have to be working pretty hard to not look where you're going to get there and completely ignore the HW forums. Heck, I still get lost on the way to the blogs. It's one of the last places someone would stumble.

On the other hand, redbelly's comment is relevant too. Does it hurt anyone to have people writing HW in their blogs? For all we know, maybe they're not really asking about the HW question, but are using their blog to figure out how to format things with LaTex now that LaTex is enabled. I think the important thing, for consistency's sake, is to not RESPOND to the HW questions there. In other words, don't give people the impression that if they skip the HW forums, they're going to get specialized attention in their blog.

There are several problems with posting homework in the blogs.

1) There is little chance that anyone is going to notice and respond.

2) The answer may be wrong, there will be no mentors or homework helpers to verify accuracy

3) Whole solutions could get posted, and again, they could be completey wrong.

 

[ZapperZ]

There may be no excuse for it, but it happens nonetheless.

We could take either of two mindsets:

1. People should be able to figure out where homework questions go, so we won't worry about the small percentage who post them in blogs, or

2. Having a bunch of homework questions in the blog section is a problem because _______(?), so let's do what we can to stop it.

I put a blank above because I'm not sure how this impacts other users negatively. Do some people like to read what others are blogging about, and it's a nuisance to wade through all the homework posts to find a real blog? Does the "clutter" present some administrative difficulty?

For me, I really don't see this as a problem. Members who don't know any better can post such HW problems in their blogs on here if they wish. If their intention is to get people to read it and help them, then they'll learn soon enough that doing that isn't the best thing to do. At some point, you really have to just let people make their own mistakes and discover what they need to do.

A separate issue is that people simply do not pay attention. Even in the various physics subforums, there's a sticky thread with a title that clearly stated to not post any HW problems in there. Did everyone read this? No. Because we still get HW questions in there. So even if something is staring at them right in their faces, they can still ignore it. So no matter how much we do to try to guide people into the various areas, I've resigned to the fact that there will be people who simply don't read instructions.

I'd say let them post their questions in the blogs.

Zz.

 

[Evo]

I'd say let them post their questions in the blogs.

Zz.

But that circumvents all of our homework policies on helping and not giving out answers.

 

[Defennder]

I think Zz meant this:

Some time you simply cannot save people from their own stupi... er... lack of understanding. Even when we have a clear HW/Coursework forum at close to the TOP of the forum list, and even with Stickies in the forum telling people not to post HW-type problems in the main physics forums, there are still people who managed to ignore all that. So if their intention is to get help, and they somehow think posting in their PF Blog is the way to do it, they'll learn soon enough.

Note that there are many who do "post-and-run", i.e. they don't come back. So where they post that one question really makes no difference.

Zz.

 

[tiny-tim]

take "Blogs" off the menu bar?

Greg, could the "NO HOMEWORK!" note contain a link to the homework section? Something like:

Click https://www.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=152" to post homework questions. Do not post homework in the blog.

Hi Redbelly98!

The "NO HOMEWORK!" is in the Header to the title field … in all, it reads "Title (NO HOMEWORK!)" … so I doubt any link can be put there.

The way we're set up, getting to the blogs is much much easier than getting to the homework section. https://www.physicsforums.com/blog.php" is the 3rd link that appears at the top of the page. And it appears at the top of every page in PF! Unlike the Homework link, which only appears on the main page (and farther down than the Blog link).

Maybe that's it! …

replace "Blogs" on the menu bar by "Homework/Help", and relegate "Blogs" to a entry in the "Quick Links" pop-up …

then newbies will take the line of least resistance, and go for the early bird in the hand rather than the worm buried in the pop-up.

EDIT: "random featured" homework blogs don't help! ​

 

[Doc Al]

But that circumvents all of our homework policies on helping and not giving out answers.

That and the absence of "quality control" are the major problems I see. I don't know about our HW Helpers and Advisors, but I almost never venture into the Blogs. (I do, of course, if a blog posting is reported.)

My guess is that 99% of homework or other questions posted in blogs are just ignored or not even seen by someone who might be able to help. Lots of luck getting good help there.

Nonetheless, I think we should--at least for the record--make it clear that homework/textbook questions belong in the HW forums, not in blogs (or "Visitor Messages" or PMs, for that matter!).

 

[Doc Al]

replace "Blogs" on the menu bar by "Homework/Help", and relegate "Blogs" to a entry in the "Quick Links" pop-up …

I like that idea!

 

[ZapperZ]

But that circumvents all of our homework policies on helping and not giving out answers.

That and the absence of "quality control" are the major problems I see. I don't know about our HW Helpers and Advisors, but I almost never venture into the Blogs. (I do, of course, if a blog posting is reported.)

My guess is that 99% of homework or other questions posted in blogs are just ignored or not even seen by someone who might be able to help. Lots of luck getting good help there.

I don't think it does circumvent our policy, because the rules still apply even in the blogs. In fact, Doc Al has clearly stated why this may not be a problem. Most people simply do not read the PF blogs, or worse still, will simply ignore the HW questions there.

Now, whether we can enforce our policy of not giving outright solutions to HW question is a different matter. However, is this really such a major issue? You have (i) a small probability of people reading someone's HW entry in the blog, (ii) a smaller probability of someone actually wanting to help with that HW problem, and (iii) and even smaller probability that the person helping actually will violate our rules about not giving full answers.

I think we are putting way too much effort into what I think is really not anywhere near an issue that requires this much attention. Again, I don't see this as being a problem at all or something that has gotten out of hand that requires this much action and consideration.

Zz.

 

[tribdog]

If someone can't find the homework help section maybe there's just no helping them. don't go redesigning the forum for them. You know those little silica packages you get inside of everything you've ever bought? The little packages that say "Do not eat"? Don't design PF for silica eaters.

 

[Doc Al]

I think we are putting way too much effort into what I think is really not anywhere near an issue that requires this much attention. Again, I don't see this as being a problem at all or something that has gotten out of hand that requires this much action and consideration.

I agree that this is probably not an issue worth worrying about. I think posting homework questions in blogs should be "officially" against our rules, so that if a Mentor happens to spot such, he/she can merrily delete it.

If someone spots violations of our "don't just hand out solutions" rule being violated anywhere, please report it. I think that such violations in blogs should incur an immediate penalty, since you shouldn't be giving (or asking for) help in blogs anyway.

And I trust that our team of HW Helpers will not be giving help in blogs. (But posting a comment that they should use the proper forum would be appropriate.)

Again, no big issue, just a minor annoyance.

 

[Evo]

Just look at the blogs, Almost every blog is homework. You just need to look at the list of blogs, you don't have to read any of them, and see where either I or Redbelly have had to re-direct them.

 

[Moonbear]

That and the absence of "quality control" are the major problems I see. I don't know about our HW Helpers and Advisors, but I almost never venture into the Blogs. (I do, of course, if a blog posting is reported.)

My guess is that 99% of homework or other questions posted in blogs are just ignored or not even seen by someone who might be able to help. Lots of luck getting good help there.

Nonetheless, I think we should--at least for the record--make it clear that homework/textbook questions belong in the HW forums, not in blogs (or "Visitor Messages" or PMs, for that matter!).

But, that's the point, I think. If they just want wrong answers, they'll get them in the blogs, and learn that's not a good place to ask for help. If they post them in the HW Help forums and get the HHers to guide them through the learning process, they'll get good help. I'm not really worried about someone who doesn't follow simple instructions getting wrong answers or no answers. Some people have to learn the hard way.

 

[Moonbear]

If someone spots violations of our "don't just hand out solutions" rule being violated anywhere, please report it. I think that such violations in blogs should incur an immediate penalty, since you shouldn't be giving (or asking for) help in blogs anyway.

And I trust that our team of HW Helpers will not be giving help in blogs. (But posting a comment that they should use the proper forum would be appropriate.)

Indeed. To me, there's more of a problem if someone who knows the forum and knows better is going in and giving help to the people posting in blogs. If they just all get ignored or deleted with no help, they'll figure it out on their own (or if they are so clueless they DON'T figure it out, then there's probably no helping them anyway).

 

[ZapperZ]

Just look at the blogs, Almost every blog is homework. You just need to look at the list of blogs, you don't have to read any of them, and see where either I or Redbelly have had to re-direct them.

So how many of those actually had a violation of our rules, i.e. had someone responding with a complete solution?

Zz.

 

[Evo]

So how many of those actually had a violation of our rules, i.e. had someone responding with a complete solution?

Zz.

Two yesterday. I caught most of them before anyone had a chance to respond.