What are the Key Factors for Victory in the 2008 Presidential Election?

[mathwonk]

i am watching michelle obama with larry king, and recently i watched sarah palin.have you seen and listened to both?i rest my case.(i do not even ask you to compare the articulate and sympathetic ms. obama to sarah palin's spouse, or to john mccain's spouse.)

ok i will say it: the obamas are inspiring, and the mccain/palins are at best embarrassing.

the United States is on camera: will we choose from fear and ignorance via lies and innuendo, or will we choose competence, intelligence, and openness, for a change?

I am 66. I was for Dwight Eisenhower in 1952. My dad thought joe mc carthy and j. edgar hoover were heroes.

 

[WhoWee]

Obama is no puppet.

If they could have dictated to Obama, they already would have Hilary as the Nominee.

Did you see what Nancy Pelosi announced today (the night after the 10/7 debate)?

If Obama wins...SHE will push for a NEW ($150,000,000,000) economic stimulus package...$1,200 per person...her games are starting...watch out!

http://news.google.com/news?q=nancy...1&hl=en&sa=X&oi=news_result&resnum=1&ct=title

 

[LowlyPion]

Did you see what Nancy Pelosi announced today (the night after the 10/7 debate)?

If Obama wins...SHE will push for a NEW ($150,000,000,000) economic stimulus package...$1,200 per person...her games are starting...watch out!

Bush will veto it.

Obama will be in and the new Totally Filibuster Proof Democratic Congress will be dancing to Obama's tune.

 

[WhoWee]

Bush will veto it.

Obama will be in and the new Totally Filibuster Proof Democratic Congress will be dancing to Obama's tune.

I think Nancy P just struck up the band...made her first move...we'll see how Obama responds.

 

[Astronuc]

Interesting caption on Yahoo/AFP) - US Republican presidential canidate John McCain (R) and running-mate Sarah Palin (C). I wonder what the C stands for. Usually it means Conservative, but in her case it could mean Christian or Crazy.

Anyway - McCain is changing his (actually Paulson's) proposal mentioned the other night during the second presidential debate.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081009/pl_politico/14414

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) made an overnight change in the homeowner bailout he proposed at Tuesday’s presidential debate, making it more generous to financial institutions and more costly for taxpayers.

McCain's staff says it was always meant that way.

When McCain sprung his surprise idea at the start of the debate in Nashville, his campaign posted details online of his American Homeownership Resurgence Plan, which would direct the government to buy up bad home mortgages, allowing strapped people to keep their property.

The document posted and e-mailed by the McCain campaign on Tuesday night says at the end of its first full paragraph: “Lenders in these cases must recognize the loss that they’ve already suffered.”

So the government would buy the mortgages at a discounted rate, reflecting the declining value of the mortgage paper.

But when McCain reissued the document on Wednesday, that sentence was missing, to the dismay of many conservatives.

That would mean the U.S. would pay face value for the troubled documents, which was the main reason Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) gave for opposing the plan.

A McCain campaign official explained the change: “That language was mistakenly included in the initial draft and it’s been corrected. It doesn’t reflect the intentions of the initiative, which necessitated the correction and the removal of the sentence. A simple mistake.”
. . . .

So McCain is letting the financial institutions off the hook and sticking it to the taxpayers. :rofl:

Estimated cost of McCain's revised plan - $300 billion. He's trying to outdo Pelosi's $150 billion stimulus package.

 

[lisab]

...the obamas are inspiring, and the mccain/palins are at best embarrassing.

Very true, mathwonk. Several weeks ago, the Obama family did a http://www.accesshollywood.com/preview-access-exclusive-barack-obama-and-family-chat-with-maria-menounos_article_10226". The girls appeared to be uncoached and the family was simply charming.

 

[Astronuc]

U.S. Study Is Said to Warn of Crisis in Afghanistan
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/09/world/asia/09afghan.html

Mr. Obama has accused the White House of paying too little attention to Afghanistan as it poured the vast bulk of American military resources into the war in Iraq, while Mr. McCain has defended the administration’s decision, saying that Iraq remains the more important front in the battle against terrorism.

So, McCain is aligned with the Bush administration - or so it appears.

 

[Astronuc]

Dem strategists see landslide in the making
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081009/pl_politico/14413

Maybe the GOP can take a time out and fix itself.

 

[Gokul43201]

The McCain campaign is now on an ALL NEGATIVE spree, according to University of Wisconsin - Madison.

During the week of September 28-October 4, nearly 100 percent of the McCain campaign’s advertisements were negative. During the same period, 34 percent of the Obama campaign’s ads were negative.

http://wiscadproject.wisc.edu/

 

[Amp1]

Thats how I figured it when Palin had her first couple of interviews. And I think the more negative, (and distorted) McCain goes the further south his chances of winning goes.

 

[LowlyPion]

Looking ahead I have to wonder what the First Obama Term will be like.

When Kennedy was elected, he had Lyndon Johnson the Majority Leader of the Senate become his Vice President. This gave him some amount of leverage on Capitol Hill. And if anyone was more of an insider than Lyndon it was only his mentor Sam Rayburn. Between the 2 of them they had great sway legislatively.

In this regard Biden is no Johnson. And Pelosi could barely muster half the party on the bailout. While I think Harry Reid is fairly adept, and the Democrats will stand to make substantial gains over the Republicans, I have some concerns about how successful compromises may be reached and how the changes that need to be made will be made.

While I think Obama may face challenges legislatively, I believe a McCain Presidency would be even more disastrous. Forget Palin being useful for anything but pep rallies. In congress her "mavericky" shtick will go absolutely nowhere. Leaving McCain and his sidekick Lieberman - neither of whom are respected by either party - without any base to do anything. Unfortunately these are times that demand action. And McCain's apparent impotence to affect much of anything looks paralyzing and deadly.

 

[Amp1]

An article looking a little deeper than the obvious racial undertones of McCains blurb/slip/gaffe in the second debate. Although, that slip gives us some insight into McCain's actual personality and subsurface intolerance. This articles examins right-wingers/neo-cons overall in that line of inquiry.

It is however from a dissident site:

http://counterpunch.com/dimaggio10092008.html

 

[mathwonk]

i believe integrity and honesty mean a lot. i think a persons whole life of behavior matter more in predicting how they will act in office than what they say in a short period of time in a campaign.

However what they are willing to say and do reflects their degree of integrity. I have been very puzzled by mc cain's behavior in this campaign, beginning with his visit to liberty university to cater to jerry falwell, someone he accurately described earlier as an agent of intolerance, and someone i have found disgusting for years. (I have been a Methodist my whole life.)

Then when he changed his opposition to torture, my disappointment deepened. then choosing sarah palin and going almost entirely negative in this campaign, has changed my view of him as someone of integrity to someone almost scurrilous, or at least desperately ambitious entering possibly his dotage.

I am even beginning to wonder if it is possible for a person to change his level so integrity so much, that I am questioning the accuracy of my earlier impression of him. He is making me wonder if he ever had much integrity. Certainly his behavior in the Keating scandal reflects little of that quality.

Has he crafted a false resume of integrity all these years, or is he just someone who declines to adhere to his principles when it is costly to do so? His willingness to kiss up the the worst elements of his party for short term gain make the label "maverick" entirely inappropriate for him i think, almost ludicrous.

 

[Amp1]

Mathwonk

I am even beginning to wonder if it is possible for a person to change his level so integrity so much, that I am questioning the accuracy of my earlier impression of him. He is making me wonder if he ever had much integrity. Certainly his behavior in the Keating scandal reflects little of that quality.

Has he crafted a false resume of integrity all these years, or is he just someone who declines to adhere to his principles when it is costly to do so?

Yes, from my reading of that Rolling Stone article someone was kind enough to link, I have come to that conclusion. I'm getting the feeling that he may be a closet racist, unlike Palin who is more overt.

His wife adopting an african child now seems like a masterful deception to cover his hidden intolerance.

 

[turbo]

He is making me wonder if he ever had much integrity.

He married a beautiful model, and when he got home from Vietnam, he found that his wife was disfigured from going through a windshield in a car crash. To save her legs, the surgeons had to remove a lot of bone, leaving her short, ill-proportioned, and with an awkward gait. McCain found a wealthy beauty queen to woo and took out a marriage license before his divorce from his first wife was final. I think McCain's shortage of personal integrity has been evident for a long time.

Of the Keating Five, McCain was the only Senator to have close personal ties to Keating, and his wife and father-in-law had business dealings with Keating. McCain flew at Keating's expense a number of times, several times on Keating's private jet, but never reimbursed Keating for the trips until years later, when he learned that Keating was in trouble over the collapse of the Lincoln S&L. So much for professional/political integrity.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1989-11-29/news/mccain-the-most-reprehensible-of-the-keating-five/1

 

[turbo]

His wife adopting an african child now seems like a masterful deception to cover his hidden intolerance.

The daughter is Indian, not African.

 

[Astronuc]

'Rednecks for Obama' want to bridge yawning culture gap
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081009/pl_afp/usvoteobamarednecks

Well - Obama's appeal is widening.

SAINT LOUIS, Missouri (AFP) - When Barack Obama's campaign bus made a swing through Missouri in July, the unlikeliest of supporters were waiting for him -- or rather two of them, holding the banner: "Rednecks for Obama."

In backing the first African-American nominee of a major party for the US presidency, the pair are on a grassroots mission to bridge a cultural gap in the United States and help usher their preferred candidate into the White House.

Tony Viessman, 74, and Les Spencer, 60, got politically active last year when it occurred to them there must be other lower income, rural, beer-drinking, gun-loving, NASCAR race enthusiasts fed up with business as usual in Washington.

Viessman had a red, white and blue "Rednecks for Obama" banner made, and began causing a stir in Missouri, which has emerged as a key battleground in the run-up to the November 4 presidential election.

"I didn't expect it would get as much steam and attention as it's gotten," Spencer told AFP on the campus of Washington University in Saint Louis, the state's biggest city and site of last week's vice-presidential debate.

"We believe in him. He's the best person for the job," Viessman, a former state trooper from Rolla, said of Obama, who met the pair briefly on that July day in Union, Missouri.

The candidate bounded off his bus and jogged back towards a roadside crowd to shake hands with the men holding the banner.

"He said 'This is incredible'," Spencer recalled.

It's been an unexpectedly gratifying run, Viessman said.

Rednecks4obama.com claims more than 800,000 online visits. In Denver, Colorado, Viessman and Spencer drew crowds at the Democratic convention, and at Washington University last Thursday they were two of the most popular senior citizens on campus.
. . .

There is hope for this country.

 

[Astronuc]

Garrison Keillor: One bomb after another
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/10/09/opinion/edkeillor.php

In Philly, a woman earns $10.30 per hour to care for a man brought down by cystic fibrosis. She bathes and dresses him in the morning, brings him meals, puts him to bed at night. It's hard work lifting him and she has suffered a painful hernia that, because she can't afford health insurance, she can't get fixed, but she still goes to work because he'd be helpless without her.

. . . .

Meanwhile, stunning acts of heroism stand out, such as the fidelity of military lawyers assigned to defend detainees at Guantánamo Bay - uniformed officers faithful to their lawyerly duty to offer a vigorous defense even though it means exposing the injustice of military justice that is rigged for conviction and the mendacity of a commander in chief who commits war crimes.

If your law school is looking for a name for its new library, instead of selling the honor to a fat cat alumnus, you should consider the names of Lieutenant Commander Charles Swift, Lieutenant Colonel Mark Bridges, Colonel Steven David, Lieutenant Colonel Sharon Shaffer, Lieutenant Commander Philip Sundel and Major Michael Mori.

To me, these people exhibit the real American character.

 

[LowlyPion]

The daughter is Indian, not African.

Bangladeshi I think. From a Mother Theresa orphanage he frequently points out.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Mathwonk

Yes, from my reading of that Rolling Stone article someone was kind enough to link, I have come to that conclusion. I'm getting the feeling that he may be a closet racist, unlike Palin who is more overt.

His wife adopting an african child now seems like a masterful deception to cover his hidden intolerance.

mathwonk listed McCains support of religious extremists, his reversal on tortore, the Keating Five scandal, and integrity in general. You brought up racism as a diversion.

 

[LowlyPion]

Interesting video from a Palin rally:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E

At least her supporters are knowledgeable on the issues.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Woohooo! Real Clear Politics has changed Virginia from undecided, to leaning Obama, which puts him at 277 - over the top! - by their count.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/

 

[mathwonk]

lowly pion, that video is scary.

but i guess that explains sarah palin's appeal. at least i can believe the people on that video could possibly support her.

it is just sobering to be reminded that people like that vote here and live here.

of course gw got some votes too, but she seems a couple notches down from him in someways.

 

[mathwonk]

don't celebrate yet ivan, it's a long way to november 4.

just compare nobel prize winning al gore to that nincompoop we got instead, and remember how foolish is the us electorate.

 

[WarPhalange]

Meh, it was just the peace prize.

 

[Astronuc]

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Virginia hasn't backed a Democrat for president in 44 years, but economic concerns and changing demographics are giving Sen. Barack Obama a chance to steal the once reliably red state from Republicans.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/09/virginia.battleground/index.html

A Virginia Commonwealth University poll taken May 12-18 had McCain leading 47 percent to 39 percent.

But as the financial crisis has shaken voters' confidence in the economy, Obama has begun to open a lead in the state, as he has done in other battleground states.

The latest CNN poll of polls has Obama leading McCain 49 percent to 45 percent. A CNN/TIME/Opinion Research Corporation poll conducted September 28-30 shows Obama with an even bigger lead over McCain, 53 percent to 44 percent. The CNN poll's margin of error was plus or minus 4 percentage points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FWenrdKswE

Bluegrass legend Ralph Stanley endorsed Obama, saying that Obama is concerned about the people, which he seems, but that Obama will cut taxes for average folks, not big business, that Obama will create 5 million new jobs (I wish presidential candidates would not promise things that are beyond their control), and help folks send their kids to college (again there are already institutions that finance college expenses).

I think presidents and candidates should stick to the job description - e.g. Commander in Chief and national security, foreign affairs and trade, and oversight of Congress.

I was concerned to hear a TV reported saying that the group of indepedent voters he was interviewing were wondering how the next president was going to help them pay their bills! It is not the presidents job to help citizens pay their bills. It is every citizens job to get an education that enables them to get a job with which to pay bills - and it is every citizens responsibility to live within their means. If somebody wants more, then they need to work hard to get the necessary education and then the job that pays more.

In health care - the health care system needs fixing - and that means removing unnecessary middle persons who simply add to the overhead. The ordinary citizen needs to maintain a healthy lifestyle so as to preclude the preventable illnesses such as cardio-pulmonary diseases, cancers and in some cases diabetes.

 

[WhoWee]

In case anyone is interested...Obama's complete voting record.

http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490

 

[Ivan Seeking]

don't celebrate yet ivan, it's a long way to november 4.

No doubt, but I don't know if I can take 26 more days of this; esp after watching Lowly Pion's video clip!

 

[LowlyPion]

If we have 26 more days of 7% drops in the market I'm not sure they will be able to hold the election. All the polling places may be foreclosed.

 

[Defennder]

Couldn't you guys vote early or something?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Couldn't you guys vote early or something?

It's not my vote that concerns me.

 

[Astronuc]

Obama buys half-hour of network primetime
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE4989SV20081010

LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - Barack Obama has purchased a half-hour of primetime television on CBS and NBC, sources confirmed Thursday.

The Obama campaign is producing a nationwide pitch to voters that will air on at least two broadcast networks. The ad will run Wednesday, October 29, at 8 p.m. -- less than a week before the November 4 general election.

The direct purchase of such a large block of national airtime right before an election used to be more commonplace before campaigns began to focus their endgame strategies exclusively on battleground states. Such a move is not without precedent in modern presidential politics, however -- Ross Perot did a similar purchase in 1992.

The special is a smart move for the Obama campaign, said Larry Sabato, a political analyst and director of the Center of Politics at the University of Virginia.

"Obama's theme is not just change but unity, so he's appealing to the whole nation rather than a handful of tossup states," Sabato said. "He wants to win the popular vote by a good margin, which will enable him to govern."

. . . .

Sabato appears on NPR and I believe PBS periodically. He's got some good books out.

I wonder if FOX will give McCain equal time. And we're still waiting for Bristol Palin's wedding. She ought not to be forced into it.

 

[Gokul43201]

I wonder if FOX will give McCain equal time.

Obama tried to buy time at Fox, but they said they didn't have that slot free since they would be covering the World Series then.

 

[turbo]

Adding to the dismay over McCain-Palin's linking of Obama to Ayers is William Ibershof - the man who prosecuted the Weather Underground. Of course, the red-faced zealots howling "traitor" at McCain's rallies won't be swayed, but it's nice to know that there are some quiet voices of reason finding their way into the press.

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003873017

 

[Astronuc]

Panic attacks: Voters unload at GOP rallies!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081010/pl_politico/14445

The unmistakable momentum behind Barack Obama's campaign, combined with worry that John McCain is not doing enough to stop it, is ratcheting up fears and frustrations among conservatives.

And nowhere is this emotion on plainer display than at Republican rallies, where voters this week have shouted out insults at the mention of Obama, pleaded with McCain to get more aggressive with the Democrat and generally demonstrated the sort of visceral anger and unease that reflects a party on the precipice of panic.

The calendar is closing and the polls, at least right now, are not.

With McCain passing up the opportunity to level any tough personal shots in his first two debates and the very real prospect of an Obama presidency setting in, the sort of hard-core partisan activists who turn out for campaign events are venting in unusually personal terms.

"Terrorist!” one man screamed Monday at a New Mexico rally after McCain voiced the campaign’s new rhetorical staple aimed at raising doubts about the Illinois senator: “Who is the real Barack Obama?”

"He's a damn liar!” yelled a woman Wednesday in Pennsylvania. "Get him. He's bad for our country." . . . .

These people need psychiatric intervention. I mean really - this is mob psychosis. I have never experienced such hostility from democrats - only republicans.