Confusion: computation of class number of K=Q(sqrt(30))

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the computation of the class number of the number field K = \mathbb{Q}(\sqrt{30}). Participants explore the implications of the Minkowski bound and the behavior of prime ideals dividing 2, 3, and 5 within this context. The conversation includes technical reasoning and challenges related to the properties of ideal classes.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the prime ideals dividing 2, 3, and 5 are given by (2) = \mathfrak{p}^2_2, (3) = \mathfrak{p}^2_3, and (5) = \mathfrak{p}^2_5, where \mathfrak{p}_n = (n, \sqrt{30}).
  • It is noted that none of the \mathfrak{p}_n for n = 2, 3, 5 is principal, as indicated by the use of Legendre symbols.
  • Another participant mentions a relation \mathfrak{p}_2 \mathfrak{p}_3 \mathfrak{p}_5 = (30), leading to the hypothesis that the class group is of order 4, generated by \mathfrak{p}_2 and \mathfrak{p}_3.
  • However, a participant expresses confusion, stating that they believe the class number should be 2, despite their calculations suggesting otherwise.
  • One participant proposes that since \mathfrak{p}_k^{-1} = \mathfrak{p}_k for k = 2, 3, 5, it suffices to show that the ideal cosets are the same, raising questions about the implications of their product being principal.
  • Another participant challenges the assertion that \mathfrak{p}_2 \mathfrak{p}_3 = 1 and \mathfrak{p}_2 \mathfrak{p}_3 \mathfrak{p}_5 = 1, questioning how these lead to the conclusion that \mathfrak{p}_5 = 1, given that \mathfrak{p}_5 is not principal.
  • A further participant points out a potential inconsistency in the equations presented, suggesting that the product of the left-hand side should not equal (30) if it is indeed the square of the left-hand side.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express confusion and uncertainty regarding the computation of the class number, with no consensus reached on the correctness of the calculations or the implications of the relationships among the prime ideals.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge potential mistakes in their reasoning but do not specify the exact nature of these errors. The discussion reflects a reliance on various mathematical properties and relationships that may not be fully resolved.

iccanobif
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
As an exercise, I'm trying to compute the class number of K = \mathbb{Q}(\sqrt{30}). By the Minkowski bound, I just need to consider the prime ideals which divide 2,3,5.
I've found that

(2) = \mathfrak{p}^2_2
(3) = \mathfrak{p}^2_3
(5) = \mathfrak{p}^2_5

where \mathfrak{p}_n = (n, \sqrt{30}).

Also, using Legendre symbols it's easy to see that none of the \mathfrak{p}_n, n = 2,3,5, is principal.

Moreover, I've found the relation

\mathfrak{p}_2 \mathfrak{p}_3 \mathfrak{p}_5 = (30).

Now, these relations make me think that the class group is of order 4 (generated by \mathfrak{p}_2, \mathfrak{p}_3, with the two generators in different ideal classes because of the last relation and the fact that \mathfrak{p}_5 is not principal).

BUT: I know that the class number should be 2.

Can anyone help me? I'm really confused!

Thanks!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
iccanobif said:
As an exercise, I'm trying to compute the class number of K = \mathbb{Q}(\sqrt{30}). By the Minkowski bound, I just need to consider the prime ideals which divide 2,3,5.
I've found that

(2) = \mathfrak{p}^2_2
(3) = \mathfrak{p}^2_3
(5) = \mathfrak{p}^2_5

where \mathfrak{p}_n = (n, \sqrt{30}).

Also, using Legendre symbols it's easy to see that none of the \mathfrak{p}_n, n = 2,3,5, is principal.

Moreover, I've found the relation

\mathfrak{p}_2 \mathfrak{p}_3 \mathfrak{p}_5 = (30).

Now, these relations make me think that the class group is of order 4 (generated by \mathfrak{p}_2, \mathfrak{p}_3, with the two generators in different ideal classes because of the last relation and the fact that \mathfrak{p}_5 is not principal).

BUT: I know that the class number should be 2.

Can anyone help me? I'm really confused!

Thanks!



An idea: it's not hard to show that \mathfrak{p}_k^{-1}=\mathfrak{p}_k\,,\,\,k=2,3,5, so you'd only need to show

that all these ideal cosets are the in fact the same, and indeed (2,\sqrt{30})(3,\sqrt{30})=(\sqrt{30}) \Longrightarrow \mathfrak{p}_2=\mathfrak{p}_3\,\,\,and\,\,\,etc.

DonAntonio
 
Last edited:
DonAntonio said:
An idea: it's not hard to show that \mathfrak{p}_k^{-1}=\mathfrak{p}_k\,,\,\,k=2,3,5, so you'd only need to show

that all these ideal cosets are the in fact the same, and indeed (2,\sqrt{30})(3,\sqrt{30})=(30)\Longrightarrow \mathfrak{p}_2=\mathfrak{p}_3\,\,\,and\,\,\,etc.

DonAntonio

My confusion comes from the fact that, although I know it's true what you said above (each \mathfrak{p}_n is its inverse in Cl_K, and also \mathfrak{p}_n \mathfrak{p}_m is principal), my problem is that

\mathfrak{p}_2 \mathfrak{p}_3 = 1
and
\mathfrak{p}_2 \mathfrak{p}_3 \mathfrak{p}_5 = 1
imply that
\mathfrak{p}_5 = 1
which it's not true, as \mathfrak{p}_5 is not principal.

I must have made a mistake somewhere, but I don't know where!
 
iccanobif said:
My confusion comes from the fact that, although I know it's true what you said above (each \mathfrak{p}_n is its inverse in Cl_K, and also \mathfrak{p}_n \mathfrak{p}_m is principal), my problem is that

\mathfrak{p}_2 \mathfrak{p}_3 = 1
and
\mathfrak{p}_2 \mathfrak{p}_3 \mathfrak{p}_5 = 1
imply that
\mathfrak{p}_5 = 1
which it's not true, as \mathfrak{p}_5 is not principal.

I must have made a mistake somewhere, but I don't know where!



Well, can you describe why you thin \,\,\mathfrak{p}_2\mathfrak{p}_3\mathfrak{p}_5=1\,\, ? As far as I can see, the product of the first

two already is 1, so how come when the third one comes you still get 1?

DonAntonio
 
iccanobif said:
(2) = \mathfrak{p}^2_2
(3) = \mathfrak{p}^2_3
(5) = \mathfrak{p}^2_5

\mathfrak{p}_2 \mathfrak{p}_3 \mathfrak{p}_5 = (30).
That can't be right. Your equations above say that (30) is the square of the left hand side.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 40 ·
2
Replies
40
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 93 ·
4
Replies
93
Views
16K
  • · Replies 55 ·
2
Replies
55
Views
11K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
7K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 175 ·
6
Replies
175
Views
27K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
7K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K