Is An a Normal Subgroup of Sn? A Proof and Explanation

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof of whether the alternating group An is a normal subgroup of the symmetric group Sn. Participants explore various approaches to the proof, including definitions of normal subgroups and properties of cosets.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proof using the definition of normal subgroups, attempting to show that τAnτ-1 = An for all τ in Sn.
  • Another participant suggests a different approach based on the size of cosets, arguing that since An is half of Sn, the cosets must either be equal or disjoint.
  • A third participant challenges the assumption that multiplication of transpositions is commutative and questions the limitation of the proof to transpositions.
  • Further, a participant emphasizes the need to utilize specific properties of An that distinguish it from general subgroups, suggesting that An can be shown to be the kernel of a suitable homomorphism.
  • Another participant clarifies the properties of cosets, noting that left and right cosets are not necessarily disjoint but must be either equal or disjoint from each other.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the proof methods and assumptions regarding the properties of transpositions and cosets. There is no consensus on the correctness of the initial proof or the best approach to demonstrate that An is a normal subgroup of Sn.

Contextual Notes

Some participants point out limitations in the initial proof, such as the lack of specific properties of An and the assumption of commutativity among transpositions. The discussion highlights the need for a more rigorous approach that considers these factors.

kimkibun
Messages
28
Reaction score
1
good day! i need to prove that the alternating group An is a normal subgroup of symmetric group, Sn, and i just want to know if my proving is correct.

we know that normal subgroup is subgroup where the right and left cosets coincides. but i got this equivalent definition of normal group from fraleigh's book, which states that for all gεG and hεH, a subgroup H of G is normal iff gHg-1=H.


now here's my proof using the definition i got,

I. I need to show that for all τεSn, τAnτ-1 is subset of An.

Let λετAnτ-1, then λ=τστ-1, for all σεAn. but since multiplication of transpositions are commutative and therefore,

λ=τστ-1=σττ-1=σ, thus, λεAn, and therefore τAnτ-1 is a subset of An.

II. I need to prove that An is a subset of τAnτ-1.

Let σεAn and τεSn, since σ is an even transposition, τσ must be an odd transposition since no permutation is a product of both even or odd transposition. Also, since multiplication of transposition is commutative I now have,

σ=σe=σττ-1=τστ-1

thus, An is a subset of τAnτ-1.

since I've shown that the two sets are subsets of each other, I therefore conclude that τAnτ-1=An and An is normal.

thanks and God bless!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
looks hard to read. your grader isn't looking forward to digging through that either.

maybe there's a slicker approach.

isn't tA the same size as At? and there's only two cosets, since A is half of S. so either tA=At, or they are disjoint. but e is in A, so tA intersects At.

i used facts about size of cosets being same, A being half of S, and cosets are always disjoint or equal, so if you don't have these facts or close to them, then maybe you're on the right track.
 
Last edited:
kimkibun said:
since multiplication of transpositions are commutative

Huh, since when? And why can you limit your proof to transpositions??

Maybe another approach will help. Can you prove that An is the kernel of a suitable homomorphism??
 
Kimkibun,
As micromass says, you cannot assume \sigma and \tau commute.
I also note that you have nowhere used any property of An other than the fact that it is a subgroup. You need to start with some property of An that subgroups in general don't have. algebrat's approach of using the fact that An is half of Sn does work, though I would word it differently. Left cosets (tH) are not necessarily disjoint from or identical to right cosets (Hu) but they are disjoint from (or identical to) each other. Since all cosets have the same size, either tA = A or tA = S-A. Likewise At = A or At = S-A. Therefore either tA = At or tA = S-At. Since t is an element of both, tA = At.
The 'disjoint or equal' property of left cosets is easily proved. Suppose xH and yH have a common element, xh = ym. Let xk ε xH. So ymh-1k = xk. mh-1k ε H, therefore xk ε yH.
That they all have the same size is also easy.

Btw, this wording is a bit sloppy:
for all gεG and hεH, a subgroup H of G is normal iff gHg-1=H.
Better is
a subgroup H of G is normal in G iff (for all gεG gHg-1=H).
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
988
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K