Grand Unification Theory fine structure constant

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the Proton lifetime as derived from the SU(5) Georgi-Glashow model, specifically examining the implications of the fine structure constant in the context of Grand Unification Theory (GUT). Participants explore numerical demonstrations, theoretical predictions, and experimental observations related to proton decay.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the numerical demonstration of the Proton lifetime equation derived from the SU(5) model, seeking values for the fine structure constant.
  • Another participant proposes that the SU(5) fine structure constant, denoted as \alpha_U, is approximately 1/42, referencing a source.
  • A different participant argues that ordinary SU(5) is no longer viable without additional matter, which alters predictions for proton decay and suggests looking into non-SUSY GUTs.
  • Some participants discuss the challenges in determining the exact value of the SU(5) coupling constant due to poor agreement with unification predictions, mentioning the need for threshold effects from new states at the GUT scale.
  • One participant presents various equations for Proton decay lifetimes, including those based on the SU(5) model and Super-Kamiokande observations, while also noting corrections to earlier claims.
  • Another participant emphasizes that current physics suggests the Proton is stable and does not decay, raising doubts about theories predicting proton decay.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the viability of the SU(5) model and the implications of the fine structure constant. There is no consensus on the correctness of the models or predictions discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the current understanding of proton decay, including unresolved mathematical steps and the dependence on specific definitions and parameters within the models discussed.

Orion1
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I am inquiring if anyone here is qualified to numerically demonstrate the solution to this equation?

The equation is the Proton lifetime derived from the SU(5) Georgi-Glashow model listed in reference 1, eq. (19).

SU(5) Proton lifetime:
\tau_p \geq \frac{1}{\alpha_{(5)}^2} \frac{M_X^4}{m_p^5}

\tau_p \geq 10^{30} \; \text{years}

According to reference 1, the parameters are:
m_p \geq 0.9382 \; \text{GeV} - Proton mass
M_X \geq 10^{14} \; \text{GeV} - X Boson mass
\alpha_{(5)} = \; \text{?} - SU(5) fine structure consant

Experimentally observed values:
\tau_p \geq 10^{32} \; \text{years} - (1990)
\tau_p \geq 10^{35} \; \text{years} - Super-Kamiokande

References for the symbolic mathematical proof to this equation and the value of \alpha_{(5)} would be appreciated.
[/Color]
Reference:
http://home.uchicago.edu/~madhav/su5.pdf"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi-Glashow_model"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_decay"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronuclear_force"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_unification_theory#cite_note-0"
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/forces/unify.html"
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/astro/unify.html#c1"
 
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I THINK that \alpha _U \approx \frac{1}{42}

source, particle physics by martin & shaw, page 269
 
Well ordinary SU(5) is dead. You have to add matter, which in turn changes the prediction for proton decay. See papers by Pavel Perez, who loves non-SUSY GUTs.

Either way, the value of the SU(5) coupling constant is generally taken to be the place where the gauge couplings all sort of meet, which is (I think) 1/42 ish. The exact number is difficult to uncover because the agreement with unification is so poor. Look at Figure 15.1 in this review: http://pdg.lbl.gov/2007/reviews/gutsrpp.pdf. The way it works is that you take the place where \alpha_2 = \alpha_1, and call that unification. Then you add a threshold effect to the strong coupling constant to make it work. The threshold effect comes from new states at the GUT scale (generally 10^16 GeV or so) that begin to contribute to the beta functions. The problem is that the threshold effect has to be large, and it is hard to imagine how such a large contribution can come into save you. What Perez showed is that you CAN get such contributions, but the manner in which you get them seems to be rather inelegant.

If you're talking about SUSY GUTs, then SU(5) is STILL dead by super-K bounds. This was shown in a paper by Hitoshi Murayama and Aaron Pierce.

In fact, the only viable GUTs are the non-minimal ones, in which you add a lot of stuff to make it work. Even SUSY SO(10) still needs to be dressed up with abelian family symmetries and such.

Finally, you should be careful. In the SUSY GUT case, you have proton decay operators coming in at dimension 5, which comes from spartner exchange, and can be a real pain in the ass.
 
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\alpha_{(5)} = \alpha _U \approx \frac{1}{42} - SU(5) fine structure constant
m_p = 0.9382720298 \; \text{GeV} - Proton mass
m_X = 10^{14} \; \text{Gev} - SU(5) - X Boson mass
m_X = 4.32037202924731 \cdot 10^{16} \; \text{GeV} - Super-Kamiokande X baryon mass

SU(5), Super-Kamiokande Proton decay lifetime:
\boxed{\tau_p = \frac{\hbar m_X^4}{10^9 e m_p^5 \alpha_{U}}}

\boxed{\tau_p = 3.80164285275096 \cdot 10^{33} \; \text{s} \; \; \; (1.20549304057298 \cdot 10^{26} \; \; \text{years})} - SU(5) Proton decay lifetime:

\boxed{\tau_p = 3.1536 \cdot 10^{42} \; \text{s} \; \; \; (10^{35} \; \text{years})} - Super-Kamiokande Proton decay lifetime

The SU(5) X baryon mass is the Wikipedia energy threshold for Grand Unification, grand unified theory, or GUT.

SU(5) GUT - Georgi-Glashow model determined the Wikipedia minimum energy threshold for a GUT theory, where nuclear forces are fused into a single unified field.

Strong coupling constant at Z boson energy threshold: (CODATA)
\alpha_s(m_Z) = 0.117620 = \frac{1}{8.50195544975344}

Wikipedia said:
proton decay has not yet been observed experimentally, and the resulting lower limit on the lifetime of the proton contradicts the predictions of this model. However, the elegance of the model has led particle physicists to use it as the foundation for more complex models which yield longer proton lifetimes.

It seems plausible that SUSY SO(10) and SU(5) are still 'salvageable' if the fine structure constant were increased to 'match' the current 'observable' minimum fine structure constant threshold determination, this being the Super-Kamiokande threshold determination and CODATA.

Fine structure constant unification:
\alpha_2 = \alpha_1

SU(5) is equivalent to Super-Kamiokande strong fine structure constant:
\alpha_{(5)} = \alpha_{SK}

SU(5) is equivalent to Z Boson strong fine structure constant:
\alpha_{(5)} = \alpha_s(m_Z)
\boxed{\alpha_{(5)} = 0.117620}
However, according to current physics, the Proton is absolutely stable and does not decay, as is also the case for an Electron. Therefore, all theories that predict Proton decay may be incorrect based solely on that principle.
[/Color]
Reference:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=235055"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi-Glashow_model"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_unification_theory#cite_note-0"
http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Constants"
 

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m_p = 0.9382720298 \; \text{GeV} - Proton mass
m_Z = 91.1876 \; \text{GeV} - Z Boson mass
m_X = 4.32037202924731 \cdot 10^{16} \; \text{GeV} - Super-Kamiokande X baryon mass

Strong coupling constant at Z boson energy threshold: (CODATA)
\alpha_s(m_Z) = 0.117620 = \frac{1}{8.50195544975344}

Z Boson mass Proton decay lifeime:
\boxed{\tau_p = \frac{\hbar m_X^4}{10^9 e m_p^5 \alpha_s (m_Z)}}

\boxed{\tau_p = 2.68117667063425 \cdot 10^{43} \; \text{s} \; \; \; (8.50195544975344 \cdot 10^{35} \; \text{years})}
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Note: physicsforums only allows 30 minutes for editing.

Correction, the SU(5) Super-Kamiokande Proton decay lifetime equation on post #4 should be:
[/Color]
SU(5), Super-Kamiokande Proton decay lifetime:
\boxed{\tau_p = \frac{\hbar m_X^4}{10^9 e m_p^5 \alpha_{U}^2}}
\boxed{\tau_p = 1.5966899981554 \cdot 10^{35} \; \text{s} \; \; \; (5.06307077040653 \cdot 10^{27} \; \; \text{years})} - SU(5) Proton decay lifetime:
[/Color]
Correction, the Z Boson mass energy threshold Proton decay lifetime equation on post #5 should be:
[/Color]
Z Boson mass energy threshold Proton decay lifetime:
\boxed{\tau_p = \frac{\hbar m_X^4}{10^9 e m_p^5 \alpha_s^2 (m_Z)}}

\boxed{\tau_p = 2.27952446066506 \cdot 10^{44} \; \text{s} \; \; \; (7.22832464695923 \cdot 10^{36} \; \text{years})}
[/Color]
 
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