Help with understanding Minkowski diagrams

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    Diagrams Minkowski
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding Minkowski diagrams, particularly how events are ordered in different reference frames. Participants explore the implications of simultaneity lines and the relationship between time and space coordinates in special relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how event B can occur before event C in the S' frame, indicating confusion about the diagram's representation.
  • Another participant explains that lines parallel to the x' axis represent simultaneity in the primed system, suggesting that points on such lines share the same time coordinate.
  • A later reply clarifies that by drawing simultaneity lines through events B and C, one can determine their time coordinates on the t' axis, which helps in understanding their temporal order.
  • Participants discuss the method of determining event order visually through the diagram versus algebraically using the Lorentz transformation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants appear to agree on the method of using simultaneity lines to analyze the diagram, but there is still confusion regarding the ordering of events and how to interpret the diagram correctly. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the initial participant's understanding.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the reference frames and the specific conditions under which the events are analyzed. The mathematical steps involved in using the Lorentz transformation are not fully explored.

I dun get it
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[PLAIN]http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4083/minkowskidiagram1.jpg

B is meant to have occurred before C in the S' frame, but I don't get how it's possible.
 
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Do you understand why the x' axis looks the way it does? If you do, you can use the same argument to see that every line that's parallel to the x' axis is a simultaneity line for the primed system, i.e. every point on such a line is assigned the same time coordinate by the primed system.

Now imagine one of those lines drawn between B and C. Points on the line have the same t' coordinate, let's say t'=T. Points above it (like C) have t'>T and points below it (like B) have t<T. Actually, you can see this more clearly if you draw two lines parallel to the x' axis that go through the points B and C. Since these are simultaneity lines, the points where they intersect the t' axis are assigned the same t' coordinates as B and C, and since those points are on the t' axis, you can see what their t' coordinates are just by looking at the scale drawn on the t' axis.
 
Last edited:
[PLAIN]http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/4083/minkowskidiagram1.jpg

So because the simultaneity line through B hits the ct' axis earlier that C, it occurs first? And to determine this, the lines must be drawn parallel to the x' axis or ct' axis, depending on whether I'm trying to find when or where an event occurred?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
That's right. You can of course determine this algebraically as well, by using the Lorentz transformation, but if you want to get the result from the diagram, that's how you do it.
 

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