What are the fundamental objects in Quantum Field Theory?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the fundamental objects in Quantum Field Theory (QFT), particularly from the perspective of differentiable manifolds and vector bundles. Participants explore the nature of these objects, their algebraic structures, and operations that can be performed on them, while also seeking resources for further study.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the basic object of study in QFT is a vector bundle on a differentiable manifold, proposing that scalar fields could serve as basis states.
  • Operations on scalar fields are proposed, including addition, multiplication, and differentiation with respect to tangent vector fields, which could lead to operators corresponding to position and momentum.
  • Another participant introduces the idea of using SU(1) valued functions and questions how this relates to electromagnetism.
  • Vector fields in a vector bundle are also considered as basis states, with various operations suggested, such as linear transformations and covariant derivatives.
  • There is a mention of using exotic Lie Groups and their corresponding Lie Algebras, with a question about the implications for color charge being SU(3).
  • Several participants discuss resources for studying geometric quantization approaches, with specific books recommended, including works by Woodhouse, Sudbery, and others.
  • One participant notes that while some recommended books focus on quantum mechanics, they may not directly address QFT, suggesting searches for QFT in curved spacetime as an alternative.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying viewpoints on the fundamental objects in QFT, with no consensus reached on a singular definition or approach. There is also a mix of agreement on the relevance of certain resources while differing on their applicability to QFT specifically.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about the mathematical structures and operations without fully resolving the implications or dependencies on definitions. The exploration of different Lie Groups and their applications remains open-ended.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for those interested in the mathematical foundations of Quantum Field Theory, particularly from a geometric perspective, as well as for individuals seeking resources on geometric quantization and related topics.

Hurkyl
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For some reason, I skimmed the wikipedia article on QFT, and I feel like I kind of have an idea what the basic objects are... it would be nice if I can be told if I'm way off base, or something close, or whatever. I'm trying to figure out just what the objects are first, and I'll worry about learning what you do with them later.


Suppose we're work on some differentiable manifold M.

The basic object of study is a vector bundle on M with an algebraic structure. We would like to think of this as an algebra of operators, so we must find something upon which they can operate.

So, the simplest sort of thing that could serve as a basis state is a scalar field on M. (i.e. a complex valued function) (details of cosntructing Hilbert space not supplied -- I think that's something I can ponder independently)

So, it seems the natural sorts of things one would do to a scalar field to produce a scalar field would be:

(1) Add your favorite scalar field
(2) Multiply by your favorite scalar field
(3) Differentiate with respect to your favorite tangent vector field

So I can lift these operations to operators on the Hilbert space, and form some sort of algebra of operators.


If I'm not mistaken, (2) and (3) would give rise to operators corresponding to position and momentum according to some coordinate chart, so this would be sufficient for QM.


But we could operate on more interesting things. For instance, I could have a SU(1) valued function on M. With the appropriate connection, I can then differentiate these to get a su(1) valued field on M, but su(1) is just R, making it a scalar field. I guess something along these lines is how you're supposed to do electromagnetism?


Or, I could consider vector fields in my favorite vector bundle on M to be basis states. We produce scalar fields by applying a section of the dual vector bundle, but we might, first, want to do all sorts of fun vector operations like:

(1) Do some sort of linear transformation. (Apply a 1,1 tensor, if we're dealing with the tangent bundle!)
(2) Take the covariant derivative with respect to our favorite vector field.
(3) Some more that I don't know!


Or, I can use more exotic Lie Groups, and differentiate to get more exotic Lie Algebras, to which I can apply dual elements to get numbers. Is that what it would mean that color is SU(3)?
 
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Do you know of any books that takes this differentiable manifold approach to QM and QFT? Thanks.


Hurkyl said:
For some reason, I skimmed the wikipedia article on QFT, and I feel like I kind of have an idea what the basic objects are... it would be nice if I can be told if I'm way off base, or something close, or whatever. I'm trying to figure out just what the objects are first, and I'll worry about learning what you do with them later.


Suppose we're work on some differentiable manifold M.

The basic object of study is a vector bundle on M with an algebraic structure. We would like to think of this as an algebra of operators, so we must find something upon which they can operate.

So, the simplest sort of thing that could serve as a basis state is a scalar field on M. (i.e. a complex valued function) (details of cosntructing Hilbert space not supplied -- I think that's something I can ponder independently)

So, it seems the natural sorts of things one would do to a scalar field to produce a scalar field would be:

(1) Add your favorite scalar field
(2) Multiply by your favorite scalar field
(3) Differentiate with respect to your favorite tangent vector field

So I can lift these operations to operators on the Hilbert space, and form some sort of algebra of operators.


If I'm not mistaken, (2) and (3) would give rise to operators corresponding to position and momentum according to some coordinate chart, so this would be sufficient for QM.


But we could operate on more interesting things. For instance, I could have a SU(1) valued function on M. With the appropriate connection, I can then differentiate these to get a su(1) valued field on M, but su(1) is just R, making it a scalar field. I guess something along these lines is how you're supposed to do electromagnetism?


Or, I could consider vector fields in my favorite vector bundle on M to be basis states. We produce scalar fields by applying a section of the dual vector bundle, but we might, first, want to do all sorts of fun vector operations like:

(1) Do some sort of linear transformation. (Apply a 1,1 tensor, if we're dealing with the tangent bundle!)
(2) Take the covariant derivative with respect to our favorite vector field.
(3) Some more that I don't know!


Or, I can use more exotic Lie Groups, and differentiate to get more exotic Lie Algebras, to which I can apply dual elements to get numbers. Is that what it would mean that color is SU(3)?
 
Yes, they're called "geometric quantization approaches". Woodhouse is the latest good book on this.

Daniel.
 
Ooh, keywords are good!
 
Hurkyl said:
Ooh, keywords are good!

Why? Don't you like them? I have two books on geometric quantization and i said [1] is the latest to my knowledge.

Daniel.

[1]J.Woodhouse, "Geometric Quantization", OUP, 1997.
 
I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. Keywords help with searches and stuff, so I'm happy to know for what to look now.
 
Sorry.:redface: I'm really sorry. Ok. Those books are more for quantum mechanics, really, I've not seen applications to fields, but maybe searcing for QFT in curved spacetime might help, too.

Daniel.
 
A. Sudbery - Quantum Mechanics and the Particles of Nature: An Outline for Mathematicians

[URL[/URL]

6387846?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance]N. Landsman - Mathematical Topics between Classical and Quantum Mechanics[/URL]
H. Araki - Mathematical Theory of Quantum Fields
R.Haag - Local Quantum Physics: Fields Particles, Algebras
J. Sniatycki - Geometric Quantization and Quantum Mechanics
N. Woodhouse - Geometric Quantization
[PLAIN][URL[/URL]

6387846?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance]A. Derdzinksi - Geometry of the Standard Model of Elementary Particles[/URL]
[PLAIN][URL[/URL]

6387846?%5Fencoding=UTF8&no=283155&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER&st=books]G. Naber - Topology, Geometry, and Gauge Fields: Foundations
G. Naber _ Topology, Geometry, and Gauge Fields: Interactions[/URL]

The books by Sudbery and Ticciati both have misleading titles, as neither book concentrates on mathematical rigor. They are meant as texts that cover much the same material as standard physics texts, but in a way that mathematics students might find more amenable. The style of both is crisp, clean, and somewhat formal, but not completely rigorous. In particular, Ticciati covers much the same material as the more standard Peskin and Schroeder, but the representation theory of Lie algebras is done *much* better in Ticciati. Ticciati also mentions very briefly the differential geomrtry of gauge field theory. Both Sudbery and Ticicati are favourites of mine, but I haven't worked through nearly as much of Ticciati as I should have.

I not sure what to say about Landsman, but it seems like it might cover some topics of interest.

Araki and Haag are fairly rigorous, but they don't cover many of the standard topics in physics quantum field theory courses.

Snitycki and Woodhouse are books about the specialized topic of geometric quantization (also mentioned by dextercioby) - a way for going from the classical to the quantum, and the choices that must be made when doing this.

Derdzinki uses modern differential geometry to give a fairly succint treatment, at the classical level, of the fields of the standard model. Naber gives a beautiful treatment of differential geometry and gauge field theory, including developing the topolgy and differential geometry from scratch.

Sudbery, Ticiatti, and Naber all contain many exercises/problems. I don't know about the rest.

Tables of Contents are available at the links that I give above. The link for Naber gives Naber I as the titles, but the "Search Inside" feature is for Naber II. This is a shame, because Naber I covers some very interesting material.

Regards,
George
 
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