2214.17 Related Lamppost And Shadow

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the heights of a lamppost and a man, and how these heights affect the length of the man's shadow as they walk away from the pole. It includes mathematical reasoning and exploration of related concepts, particularly focusing on rates of change and the implications of height differences.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the relevance of the number 35 in the context of the problem, suggesting confusion over its role.
  • Another participant generalizes the problem using variables for the heights of the post and the man, deriving a formula that relates the lengths of shadows to these heights.
  • There is a discussion about the independence of the rate of change of the shadow's length from the distance between the man and the pole, emphasizing that it depends on the ratio of the heights.
  • A participant proposes that if two men of different heights walk at the same speed, the taller man's shadow will change length more quickly, supported by a mathematical derivative.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about the correctness of a speed value mentioned in the problem, noting inconsistencies in examples they reviewed.
  • There is a question posed about the behavior of the shadow's length as the man's height approaches that of the pole, inviting further exploration.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance of certain values and the implications of the derived formulas. There is no consensus on the interpretation of the speed value or the examples referenced, indicating ongoing debate and exploration.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the heights of the individuals involved and the conditions under which the relationships hold. The mathematical steps and implications of the derived formulas are not fully resolved, leaving room for further inquiry.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in mathematical modeling of physical scenarios, particularly in relation to geometry and rates of change, may find this discussion relevant.

karush
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ok just seeing if this is ok
where does the 35 come in ?
I tried to follow an example but??
is not x=35
 

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Let's generalize a bit and let $P$ be the height of the post, and $M$ be the height of the man, where $M<P$. Using the provided diagram as a guide, we see from similarity that:

$$\frac{x+y}{P}=\frac{y}{M}$$

Arrange this as:

$$y=\frac{M}{P-M}x$$

Differentiate w.r.t time $t$:

$$\d{y}{t}=\frac{M}{P-M}\d{x}{t}$$

Do you see now that $$\d{y}{t}$$ is independent of $x$ (the distance between the man and the pole)? It depends only on the ratio of the man's height to the difference between the height of the pole and the man, and on $$\d{x}{t}$$. That's why you don't see 35 in the solution.

Suppose two men are walking at the same constant speed along a line connecting them and the pole...and one man is taller than the other...whose shadow changes length more quickly?
 
ok, see your point guess they just put it in there to brain twist some

so I presume that $3 ft/sec$ is correct

I looked at 5 examples they all did something different?
 
MarkFL said:
Suppose two men are walking at the same constant speed along a line connecting them and the pole...and one man is taller than the other...whose shadow changes length more quickly?

Let's look at our formula:

$$y=\frac{M}{P-M}x$$

Now suppose we define:

$$f(M)=\frac{M}{P-M}$$ where $0<M<P$

Hence:

$$f'(M)=\frac{P}{(P-M)^2}>0$$

So, we see that as $M$ increases, so must $f$...and so the taller man's shadow will change length at a quicker rate than that of the shorter man. :)

What happens to the rate of change of the shadow's length as the man's height approaches that of the pole?
 

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