311.1.7.9 For what values of h is v_3 in Span {v_1,v_2,v_3}

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on determining the values of \( h \) for which the vectors \( v_1, v_2, v_3 \) are linearly dependent. Participants explore the definitions and implications of linear dependence and independence in the context of a system of equations derived from these vectors.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that \( v_3 \) is in the span of \( \{v_1, v_2\} \) if there exist constants such that \( c_1v_1 + c_2v_2 = v_3 \), leading to an augmented matrix representation.
  • Another participant clarifies that it is the set of vectors that is independent, not the vector itself, and provides a definition of independent vectors involving a system of equations.
  • A third participant introduces a theorem regarding pivot rows in the context of the discussion.
  • Further, a participant performs row operations on the augmented matrix to derive conditions on \( h \) that determine the independence of the vectors, concluding that if \( h \neq 18 \), the vectors are independent, while \( h = 18 \) leads to dependence.
  • One participant questions the relevance of discussing the consistency of a system of equations, suggesting a disconnect in the framing of the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and implications of linear dependence and independence. There is no consensus on the framing of the problem, particularly regarding the relevance of system consistency.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on specific definitions and properties of linear dependence and independence, which may depend on the context of the problem. The discussion involves multiple interpretations of the mathematical framework and the implications of the derived equations.

karush
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$\tiny{311.1.7.9}$
For what values of $h$ is $v_3$ in Span $\{v_1,v_2,v_3\}$ linearly \textit{dependent}. Justify
$v_1=\left[\begin{array}{rrrrrr}1\\-3\\2\end{array}\right],
v_2=\left[\begin{array}{rrrrrr}-3\\9\\-6\end{array}\right],
v_3=\left[\begin{array}{rrrrrr}5\\-7\\h\end{array}\right]$

$v_3$ is in Span{v1, v2} means there exists a constant such that

$c_1v_1 + c_2v_2 = v_3$

So if, but this is an augmented matrix

$\left[\begin{array}{rr|r}1 &−3& 2 \\ −3 &9 &−7 \\5 &−7& h \end{array}\right]$
RREF
$\left[ \begin{array}{ccc} 1 & -3 & 2 \\0 & 0 & -1 \\0 & 8 & h - 10 \end{array} \right]$
anyway, so far:unsure:$
 
Last edited:
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Your wording is a little off- it is not a vector in the span that is independent, it is the set of vectors themselves. And to do this problem you need to think about the DEFNITION of "independent vectors": these vectors are independent if and only there do NOT exist numbers, a, b, and c, not all 0, such that [math]a\begin{bmatrix}1 \\ -2 \\ 3\end{bmatrix}+ b\begin{bmatrix}-3 \\ 9 \\ -6 \end{bmatrix}+ c \begin{bmatrix}5 \\ -7 \\ h \end{bmatrix}= \begin{bmatrix} 0 \\ 0 \\ 0 \end{bmatrix}[/math]

That is the same as saying
a- 3b+ 5c= 0
-2a+ 9b- 7c= 0
3a- 6b+ hc= 0

Try to solve those. h will make those vectors independent if the only solution is a= b= c= 0,

That can be done using an augmented matrix similar to your matrix- but your matrix is not "augmented". You need\begin{bmatrix}1 & -3 & 5 & 0 \\ -2 & 9 & -7 & 0 \\ 3 & -6 & h & 0 \end{bmatrix}.
 
ok here is the theorem I think we need r3 is a pivit row

Screenshot 2020-12-31 at 4.30.35 PM.png
 
Last edited:
Starting from $\begin{bmatrix}1 & -3 & 5 & 0 \\ -2 & 9 & -7 & 0 \\ 3 & -6 & h & 0 \end{bmatrix}$ add twice the first row to the second row and subtract three times the first row from the third row to get $\begin{bmatrix}1 & -3 & 5 & 0 \\ 0 & 3 & 3 & 0 \\ 0 & 3 & h-15 & 0 \end{bmatrix}$.

Now subtract the new second row from the third row to get $\begin{bmatrix}1 & -3 & 5 & 0 \\ 0 & 3 & 3 & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & h-18 & 0 \end{bmatrix}$.

That matrix is equivalent to the equations a- 3b+ 5c= 0, 3b+ 3c= 0, and (h- 18)c= 0. If h is not 18, we can divide both side of the last equation by h- 18 to get c= 0. Then the second equation becomes 3b= 0 so b= 0 and the first equation becomes a= 0. That is, if h is anything other than 18, the vectors are independent. If h= 18, however, (h- 18)c= 0 becomes 0= 0 which is true for any c, 3b+ 3c= 0 gives b= -c and a- 3b+ 5c= a+ 8c= 0 so a= -8c. There exist infinitely many a, b, c that make the equations true so the vectors are dependent.

I don't know why you are giving the definition of a system of equations being "consistent". The exercise in your first post says nothing about a system of equation nor "consistency".
 

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