3D Visualization of Electromagnetism

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the visualization of electromagnetism in three dimensions, exploring the nature of electric and magnetic fields, their interactions, and how they propagate through space. Participants express challenges in conceptualizing these fields beyond traditional representations like sine waves and seek a clearer understanding of their three-dimensional characteristics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that static electric or magnetic fields cannot be represented by sine waves, as they are non-changing, and questions the intrinsic direction of fields.
  • Another participant discusses the perpendicularity of electric and magnetic fields, suggesting that this is a defined relationship rather than an intrinsic property of the fields themselves.
  • There is a query about how forces from three-dimensional fields can be perpendicular if they are exerted in three dimensions, leading to further exploration of vector representation.
  • Participants discuss whether a moving electromagnetic field indicates an expansion from its source or the creation of a field that moves away, with one suggesting that it is a "changing" field rather than a "moving" one.
  • One participant clarifies that a charged particle behaves differently in static electric and magnetic fields, drifting in specific patterns based on the nature of the fields.
  • There is a discussion about electromagnetic waves propagating in a spherical manner at the speed of light and how visible light and photons relate to these waves.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of electric and magnetic fields, particularly regarding their directionality and the implications of their three-dimensional nature. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views on the visualization and conceptualization of electromagnetic fields.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding due to the complexity of visualizing electromagnetic phenomena and the reliance on mathematical descriptions that may not be accessible to all. There is an acknowledgment of the need for clearer representations of these fields in three dimensions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals seeking to deepen their understanding of electromagnetism, particularly those who struggle with visualizing electric and magnetic fields in three dimensions and their interactions.

Fsnorglepuff
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I would like some help in visualizing electromagnetism in three dimensions. I have researched extensively and have come up with nothing but sine waves and pond ripples. But just like sine waves representing sound, which are three dimensional compression waves, do not represent how sound actually looks, the perpendicular sine waves of electric and magnetic fields do not represent how electromagnetism actually looks (which I do realize is somewhat paradoxical, trying to visualize the very thing by which we are granted the very capability).

I know that electric fields are three dimensional, and so are magnetic fields, like spheres. How can they have direction (the vectors on sine waves) if they are "spherical" and thus pulling or repulsing from all around? Is the electric field positive or negative? How can they be perpendicular to one another (a magnetic field has poles, but an electric one?)? When either an electric or magnetic field moves and creates the other, where is it located? For example, a moving magnetic field creates an electric field - where is the electric field? Superimposed on the magnetic one, or offset?

And how do electromagnetic fields propagate through space? Sorry if this is a lot to answer - my dilemma over visualizing fluctuating electromagnetic waves has led to the subsequent problems of not understanding its propagation and so forth. And after looking over related topics, I have noticed a great deal of equations being given - I wouldn't understand any of that. All I really need is a picture or description of electric and magnetic waves propagating through a vacuum in THREE dimensions, not one or two as is so popular :)

Thank you so much, any answer would be enormously appreciated!
 
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Well, first of all a static electric or magnetic field cannot be expressed by a sine wave, as it is non changing. Both the electric and magnetic fields have a "direction" only because we have defined them as having one. IE if I put a positive test charge in an electric field and it goes away from the source then I know the "direction" of the field is pointing away from the source. The field itself has no intrinsic direction, we just put one there to help us out. Also, the field is neither positive nor negative. It is simply there. A positive particle puts out the same field that a negative one does except that particles will react differently to the field depending on whether the particle is positive or negative because the directions are different.

A magnetic and electric field are perpendicular to each other because that is simply how it works. A changing electric field produces a magnetic field that is at a right angle to it. All the math on this can be found on wikipedia's article on electromagnetism and related links.
 
Thanks, that helps a bit - I did mean a moving electromagnetic field.

Though about the perpendicularity - if electric or magnetic fields are three dimensional, then wouldn't their forces be exerted in three dimensions? Thus how can the forces of magnetic and electric fields be perpendicular if the vectors representing force would be on infinite planes?

Also, does a moving electromagnetic field mean that a field expands from its source, or does it mean a field is created and moves away?
 
Fsnorglepuff said:
Though about the perpendicularity - if electric or magnetic fields are three dimensional, then wouldn't their forces be exerted in three dimensions? Thus how can the forces of magnetic and electric fields be perpendicular if the vectors representing force would be on infinite planes?

The magnetic field itself is 3d just as the electric field is. Take a look at this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Manoderecha.svg
The B field is caused by a current in the wire and is perpendicular to the current. The innermost ring would be an area where the magnetic field is stronger than the outermost ring. It also extends the entirety of the length of the wire, not just in that one plane. Now, the forces from a magnetic field act on a charged particle differently than you might think it would. (This is why vectors matter) A charged particle drifts SIDEWAYS in a magnetic field, no simply away or towards it. If you have a static homogenous electric field a charged particle will drift in a direction that is parallel to the direction of the field. A static homogenous magnetic field would cause the particle to drift in a circle "around" the lines in the B field. It is only when you have an inhomogeneous magnetic field that a charged particle will experience a force moving it away from the source of the field. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Charged-particle-drifts.svg

Also, does a moving electromagnetic field mean that a field expands from its source, or does it mean a field is created and moves away?

It's not actually a "moving" field, it is a "changing" field. Moving the source simply causes the field to change. A bar magnet is a "static" field, meaning that it is not changing. If you moved the magnet then the field would be changing in space around the magnet. Think of the field as something that is always there and it is simply that any CHANGE in the field must propagate outwards at the speed of light. So a static source is surrounded by a field that is static as well until something causes the field to change.
 
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Wow, that really cleared things up! So since an electric field would pull or push in the direction of the source, the magnetic field (assuming it is homogeneous) would pull or push in a direction perpendicular to the source (causing a particle to move around the source, as you said)?

An in regards to electromagnetic field propagation - so an electromagnetic wave will just expand in a sphere at the speed of light, away from its source? How does visible light play into this? And photons? Would the light we perceive be a portion of the wave that hits us?
 

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