4-velocity, the mass shell and potential energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of 4-velocity, the mass shell condition, and the implications of potential energy on these concepts within the framework of relativistic physics. Participants explore how the presence of a potential affects the momentum-energy relation and the definition of canonical momentum.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states the mass shell condition for a free relativistic particle and questions whether this condition is affected by the presence of a potential.
  • Another participant asserts that the condition u^\mu u_\mu = c^2 always holds true, distinguishing between mechanical and canonical momentum based on the Lagrangian of the system.
  • The initial participant reiterates the mass shell condition and potential energy relationship, seeking confirmation on whether p^\mu can be expressed as mu^\mu + A^\mu while maintaining u^\mu u_\mu = c^2.
  • A reference to Jackson's text on Classical Electrodynamics is provided as a source for further exploration of these concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of potential energy on the mass shell condition and the definitions of momentum, indicating that multiple competing views remain without a consensus.

Contextual Notes

The discussion does not resolve the implications of the potential on the mass shell condition or the definitions of momentum, leaving these points open to interpretation and further exploration.

pellman
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4-velocity, the "mass shell" and potential energy

For a free relativistic particle we have the condition

[tex]E^2-\mathbf{p}^2c^2=m^2c^4[/tex].

putting [tex]p^0 = c^{-1}E[/tex] we may write this as

[tex]p^\mu p_\mu = m^2c^2[/tex]

And since [tex]p^\mu = m\frac{dx^\mu}{d\tau} = mu^\mu[/tex] we may express the same condition as

[tex]u^\mu u_\mu = c^2[/tex]

At least, this is true for a free particle. Is this condition affected by the presence of a potential?

In the presence of a potential [tex]A^\mu[/tex] the momentum-energy relation becomes

[tex](p^\mu-A^\mu)(p_\mu-A_\mu) = m^2c^2[/tex]

doesn't it? But then in that case, we are talking about the canonical momentum and we no longer have [tex]p^\mu = mu^\mu[/tex]. But is [tex]p^\mu = mu^\mu+A^\mu[/tex]? So that we still have [tex]u^\mu u_\mu = c^2[/tex]? Can't find this in my texts and just wanted someone to confirm I understand it correctly.
 
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Always, [tex]u^\mu u_\mu = c^2[/tex]. Mechanical momentum is m times that. Canonical momentum is determined from what the Lagrangian of the system is.
 
pellman said:
For a free relativistic particle we have the condition

[tex]E^2-\mathbf{p}^2c^2=m^2c^4[/tex].

putting [tex]p^0 = c^{-1}E[/tex] we may write this as

[tex]p^\mu p_\mu = m^2c^2[/tex]

And since [tex]p^\mu = m\frac{dx^\mu}{d\tau} = mu^\mu[/tex] we may express the same condition as

[tex]u^\mu u_\mu = c^2[/tex]

At least, this is true for a free particle. Is this condition affected by the presence of a potential?

In the presence of a potential [tex]A^\mu[/tex] the momentum-energy relation becomes

[tex](p^\mu-A^\mu)(p_\mu-A_\mu) = m^2c^2[/tex]

doesn't it? But then in that case, we are talking about the canonical momentum and we no longer have [tex]p^\mu = mu^\mu[/tex]. But is [tex]p^\mu = mu^\mu+A^\mu[/tex]? So that we still have [tex]u^\mu u_\mu = c^2[/tex]? Can't find this in my texts and just wanted someone to confirm I understand it correctly.

If you look in Jackson's text Classical Electrodynamics you will find something very close.

Pete
 
Thanks, guys.
 

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