6D calculation of spring-forces/moments

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the calculation of forces and moments acting on springs, particularly in the context of a master's thesis in electrical engineering. The focus is on understanding the deformation of springs under various loading conditions, including stress, torsion, shear, and bending in three spatial directions. Participants explore theoretical approaches and practical methods for modeling these effects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Helferlein seeks assistance in calculating all possible moments and forces acting on a spring, indicating a need for comprehensive analysis beyond simple push and pull forces.
  • Some participants question the necessity of the complex calculations proposed, suggesting that simpler methods may suffice.
  • One participant describes a method to analyze the deflection of a spring under compound loading by breaking it down into elemental lengths and matching forces and deflections.
  • Another participant suggests using numerical methods or finite element analysis (FEA) for modeling the spring response, while also recommending testing a physical spring as an alternative approach.
  • Concerns are raised about the feasibility of measuring complicated shear or moment loads on a spring, with suggestions to simplify the analysis by choosing a different structure or limiting the number of loads considered.
  • A suggestion is made to explore photoelastic methods for stress determination as an alternative to the proposed vision system.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the complexity and feasibility of the proposed analysis. While some offer methods and suggestions for modeling, others question the practicality of the approach and recommend simpler alternatives. No consensus is reached on the best method to pursue.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the proposed approach, including the challenges of decomposing complex loads analytically and the potential for simpler sensor designs to ease the mathematical analysis.

Helferlein
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Hi,

I'm a student in electrical engineering and I'm writing my master thesis at the moment. Ironically I'm now confronted with the deformation of springs. I'm not a physics (!) but I think and hope that you may can help me. Simple push and pull forces are not the problem.
I need to calculate all possible moments and forces and all possible combinations which can act on a spring. So I need to cover stress, torsion, shear, bending in all three spatial directions. My advisors told me to have a look at the beam theory but I didn't found an analogy for springs.

Can you help me?

Thanks in advance,
Helferlein
 
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Why do you need to do this ??
 
Nidum said:
Why do you need to do this ??

The goal is to record the deformation with a camera and get the applied forces and moments out of this. It's some kind of a visual 6D force/torch sensor.
 
So you have a simple helical wire spring anchored at one end and free to move in all directions at the other end ?

There is nothing intrinsically difficult about working out the deflection of a spring under compound loading . Might take you a while though .

Conceptually you have to break the spring down into elemental lengths and match forces and deflections between adjacent elements all along the spring using analytic methods .

There is also an approximate method where it is assumed that the several types of flexure do not interact and that they can be analysed independently .

Alternatively use a numerical method based on a chain of discrete elements each of which consists of one full turn of the spring . Using matrix methods and some computer time a good model of the spring response could be developed .

Personally I would use FEA or just buy a spring and test it .
 
Last edited:
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Just note :

There are lot's of other ways to design an all axis sensor .

Almost certainly there are better ways of doing what you want than monitoring the movement of the end of a single spring .

In any case a different concept for the sensor design might well make the maths much easier .
 
This application sounds questionable... While it would be reasonably easy to measure length change with a vision system and correlate with the force applied to a compressing a spring, it will be very difficult to calculate/decompose some of the more complicated shear or moment loads (especially out-of-plane ones) you could "in theory" apply to a spring.

My recommendations if you're stuck to the vision system is:
  1. Choose a simpler structure to analyze, like a simple cross-section fixed-end beam (Wikipedia: Beam Bending)
  2. Limit the number of loads you're planning to determine, it isn't realistic to think you can decompose more than 2 or 3 of combined loads on a complex structure via analytical means.
  3. Alternatively, you might consider developing a vision system which uses a photoelastic method for determining stress in parts via stress birefringence.
 

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