A funny remark about Newton's Cradle

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Newton's Cradle, particularly its role in illustrating conservation laws and the complexities involved in its behavior during elastic collisions. Participants explore whether students should be aware of these complexities and if alternative explanations exist beyond the conventional understanding.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the Newton's Cradle can illustrate more than just conservation laws, raising questions about the uniqueness of solutions in elastic collisions.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the balls are designed to be in contact and discusses the implications of the construction on the behavior of the system.
  • A later reply mentions the unexpected appearance of the golden ratio in the context of the discussion, suggesting that different initial conditions could lead to various outcomes.
  • One participant shares journal papers and resources that highlight the complexity of seemingly simple experiments, cautioning against accepting established explanations without scrutiny.
  • A humorous reference to a play is made, suggesting a cultural connection to the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the Newton's Cradle's behavior and the significance of its construction. There is no consensus on whether the conventional model adequately explains the system's dynamics.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the conventional understanding of elastic collisions in the context of the Newton's Cradle, particularly regarding the sensitivity to initial conditions and construction details. Unresolved assumptions about the system's behavior are present.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in physics education, the nuances of classical mechanics, and the philosophical implications of experimental physics may find this discussion relevant.

zwierz
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Everybody knows what this is
Balls.gif


Teachers very like to show it to students as an illustration of conservation laws. But this toy illustrates something less trivial also.
And the questions are
1) should students know such things?
2) are there another explanations besides the one proposed below ?

Assume that our Newton Cradle consists of three same balls each ball has mass 1. Initially the first and the second ball are at rest and those are in contact. The third ball hits the second one with velocity 2. The collision is elastic.
Let ##v_i,\quad i=1,2,3## be the velocities of the balls right after the collision. Write down the laws of energy and impulse conservation:
$$v_1^2+v_2^2+v_3^2=4,\quad v_1+v_2+v_3=2.$$
These are two equations with three unknowns. The solution ##v_1=2,\quad v_3=v_2=0## is usually demonstrated but actually this system has the continuum solutions. For example another one is
$$v_1=\frac{1-\sqrt 5}{2},\quad v_2=1,\quad v_3=\frac{1+\sqrt 5}{2}.$$
So that the model of elastic collision does not provide uniqueness of solution and thus this model is incorrect for the Newton Cradle. The explanation of this effect is as follows. The motion after the collision is very sensitive to initial position of the first and the second ball. They may not be in contact but situated very close to each other and this small distance influences heavily to the behavior of the system right after the collision. Almost the same small initial distances between the first and the second ball can give very different velocities after the collision. The result may also be sensitive to small irregularities of the balls at the contact point.
 
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The balls are assumed to be in contact. The physical construction has the suspension points separated by very slightly less than the ball diameter so as to ensure contact.

Looking at the animation, I notice that the far string has a few pixels of inward slope. That actually shows the suspension points are spaced at greater than the ball diameter, which is exactly the opposite of how the cradle is made in practice. The suspension must guarantee contact. That pixel string is only visible because one vertical string is shown, but to maintain the balls in a straight line, it takes two strings in a 'V' for each ball.

Funny how the golden ratio shows up when you are not expecting it.
 
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Baluncore said:
Funny how the golden ratio shows up when you are not expecting it.
the golden ratio shows up here just by accident, I could assign another initial velocity and another mass or choose another solution
Baluncore said:
The balls are assumed to be in contact. The physical construction has the suspension points separated by very slightly less than the ball diameter so as to ensure contact.
then what is your explanation?
 
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zwierz said:
Everybody knows what this is

Well done! Your post got me thinking about something I (initially) thought was trivial. Here's a few journal papers (I'm reading them now)

http://www.physikdidaktik.uni-karlsruhe.de/publication/ajp/Ball-chain_part2.pdf
http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~garyd/Publications/Delaney_2004_AmJPhys_Rocking_Newtons_Cradle.pdf

And a good site:
https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/scenario/cradle.htm

As to your first question, I'll quote from one of the papers (Delaney):

"Students should see that apparently simple experiments, when closely examined, can raise a number of complicated questions. One also should be cautious about fully accepting well-established explanations of physical phenomena without carefully scrutinizing the arguments."
 
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See the play and movie, Rosenkrantz and Guildenstern are dead (Tom Stoppard) for a funny illustration of Newtons cradle on youtube
 

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