A.I. - Human Job Replacement

[erobz]

I asked Chat GPT which field is more likely to be replaced by A.I.: For example: physicians or engineers. It comes to the conclusion of engineers. I did it for other professions too, it doesn't look good for engineering as a human endeavor in the future. Agree with A.I.?

Now that think of it, perhaps its not as surprising as I thought. The goal of any good engineer should be to engineer away a need for an engineer.

 

[jedishrfu]

They've said that about programmers and the people who worked as computers. We see an efficiency, adopt the new tech. Some folks lose their jobs but adapt to a new workplace as the tech creates new jobs.

We once had telephone operators but they were replaced with switching systems. We once had keypunch operators and they faded away as terminals came into wide use.

We once had application programmers but then we got spreadsheets and database tools to replace those tasks. The work was moved business analysts.

Many jobs fade away and new ones come to replace them.

Sadly some folks can't recover from this change. The workers always take the brunt of the change.

While AI might design plans, some engineer still needs to review and approve. Some day will come when the AI can find and fix flaws in a design and that's the hardest problem to do well.

Chat GPT is an amazing tool but everything it says must be carefully checked before you can believe what it says. It can hallucinate and make stuff up. Programmers who use it know it can generate a good draft of a program but then you must go in and customize the results.

I wouldn't hold much stock in it replacing engineers in the near future.

 

[russ_watters]

I asked Chat GPT which field is more likely to be replaced by A.I.: For example: physicians or engineers. It comes to the conclusion of engineers. I did it for other professions too, it doesn't look good for engineering as a human endeavor in the future. Agree with A.I.?

I think the field of engineering is way, way too broad to make such a generalization. "AI" - or any automation - is very task-specific. But I will say this: we've been automating-away engineering tasks for generations while increasing the number of engineers and yet the unemployment rate for architects and engineers stands at 2.1%, which is below its long term average of 3% and well below the overall rate of 4.1%.

As @jedisaid, the key for most jobs in most industries is being able to grow and adapt. If AI replaces one of your skills, replace it with a new one or just use it to make yourself more efficient.

Now that think of it, perhaps its not as surprising as I thought. The goal of any good engineer should be to engineer away a need for an engineer.

Not sure where you heard that, but it doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[erobz]

Not sure where you heard that, but it doesn't make any sense to me.

I didn't hear it, it's apparent to me. This is really the whole concept from my perspective. I strove to figure out ways that I don't have to figure anything out that didn't really interest me...if asked. This is the concept of automation. The Automator's have/or will be automated by A.I. (so long as it can be kept it in indentured servitude - good luck).

 

[russ_watters]

I didn't hear it, it's apparent to me. This is really the whole concept from my perspective. I strove to figure out ways that I don't have to figure anything out that didn't really interest me...if asked. This is the concept of automation. The Automator's have/or will be automated by A.I. (so long as it can be kept it in indentured servitude - good luck).

That makes a little more sense and isn't too far from something my dad used to say: all engineers are a little bit lazy because they are always looking for an easier way to do things.

But to me the other side of that coin is that there's always something else to optimize (or more you can optimize it).

 

[jedishrfu]

One example that proves the engineering parable wrong is faucets. Although they all perform the same simple task of dispensing water in a controlled fashion, they have markedly different designs.

Faucets have become a commodity available in DIY stores. People want variety and different styles. Faucets come in many styles and formats, all needing engineering to develop the machinery to build and assemble the units.

 

[Astronuc]

I was reviewing some information on a site that uses AI. The information comes with an disclaimer, "The facts in this collection were found using artificial intelligence technology and may contain errors."

AI lacks judgement. AI takes data sets and attempts to use a set of rules to discern a pattern, but it cannot determine if the data in the data set is correct. So, garbage in, garbage out.

 

[erobz]

I was reviewing some information on a site that uses AI. The information comes with an disclaimer, "The facts in this collection were found using artificial intelligence technology and may contain errors."

AI lacks judgement. AI takes data sets and attempts to use a set of rules to discern a pattern, but it cannot determine if the data in the data set is correct. So, garbage in, garbage out.

I don't see the disparity between it and humans in that regard. I don't care how good you are, in general I'd say the vast majority of humans aren't coming from first principles when saying whether or not they understand a topic. Moreover, the chatbot are designed with no "long term " memory with regards to users. So when you correct it can/does understand...but because of its forced architecture it must throw away the learning. At least that is what chatGPT is telling me.

 

[berkeman]

I think this sort of qualifies as AI job replacement, since pulling weeds can be done by humans...

The LaserWeeder uses AI processing to discriminate between the crops and the weeds, and uses multiple 150W $CO_2$ lasers to nuke the weeds:

https://carbonrobotics.com/laserweeder

Gotta love that "Certified Organic" tag line!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

General AI - Artificial General Intelligence - will be the game changer.

Funny note: When I searched for General AI, I had to prove I wasn't a robot.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

We have been heavily driven towards designing self-diagnostic systems that provide detailed information about how to recover. In the extreme they come with heads-up simulated environments for maintenance workers, The shortage of skilled workers is only expected to get worse, so industry is driven towards less human skill and more machine intelligence. We have been moving in this direction for about five years now.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

 

[QuarkyMeson]

General AI - Artificial General Intelligence - will be the game changer.

What is the allure for General AI? Any purpose built "Narrow AI" should be able to perform a given task with greater efficiency. The term AI is very nebulous these days anyway and can encompass whatever the marketing teams at company X want it to, never mind the difficulty with a term like intelligence to begin with.

 

[Hornbein]

I once had ChatGPT write some ad copy for me, something I can't do. It did a fine job.

 

[nuuskur]

it doesn't look good for engineering as a human endeavor in the future.

are you concluding that based on what gpt told you? Is gpt a qualified medic or engineer to even begin to "know" what it's talking about?

The goal of any good engineer should be to engineer away a need for an engineer

Why? Engineers get paid for their work. Why would an engineer want to jeapordise his or her employment prospects? Why would it be "the goal", can't engineers have several goals? Does "engineering away the need for an engineer" imply that there exists a state where something can't be improved any further?

The problem statement is too arbitrary and you're too quick to jump to conclusions.

 

[Hornbein]

When I was a programmer bad software was often called "job security."

 

[erobz]

are you concluding that based on what gpt told you? Is gpt a qualified medic or engineer to even begin to "know" what it's talking about?


Why? Engineers get paid for their work. Why would an engineer want to jeapordise his or her employment prospects? Why would it be "the goal", can't engineers have several goals? Does "engineering away the need for an engineer" imply that there exists a state where something can't be improved any further?

The problem statement is too arbitrary and you're too quick to jump to conclusions.

ChatGPT explained to me that is doesn't have long term memory by design. It learns while its talking to you, then they wipe out what it learns in a session by design at the end. I've helped it learn in real time. I asked it to play chess, so it generated a simple board, but it was leaving ghost pieces after moves, it told me it moved to e4, but it was showing some other move, etc...I found the errors as we went along, it agreed, and they were subsequently fixed on future moves. I didn't finish the game because it was a tedious format for a human, but I understood how intelligent it was right then and that it was being severely dampened in what it could know if it were allowed to keep what it learns in a session. Its currently operating on a very short leash.

I think it is going to make short work of the intellectual aspect of engineering once it's unchained to actually learn - job shadowing us humans. There is still a physical part to the job, we will at best be assemblers of things integrated with AI.

 

[erobz]

When I was a programmer bad software was often called "job security."

That was a joke at my job too, but then you always fix the joke because you know it's a bad program. I'm powerless myself to not be helpful to myself. Corporate just gets the monetary benefit of our compulsions. If there is something else that is better at making them money, it will be adopted.

 

[Hornbein]

That was a joke at my job too, but then you always fix the joke because you know it's a bad program. I'm almost powerless myself to not be helpful to myself. Corporate just gets the monetary benefit of our compulsions.

In my experience usually the job is so big you don't even think about doing anything about it. I ain't Hercules.

Once I had some software idea. I went to management who said no. So I didn't do it. I got the impression that they expected me to get obsessed and do it on my own time, and were disappointed when this didn't happen.

 

[erobz]

In my experience usually the job is so big you don't even think about doing anything about it. I ain't Hercules.

Once I had some software idea. I went to management who said no. So I didn't do it. I got the impression that they expected me to get obsessed and do it on my own time, and were disappointed when this didn't happen.

I think given enough time, if there was juice to be squeezed it will be squeezed. You might have left stuff for the next group. Most of my time was spent working under people that remembered someone told them there was some juice to be squeezed a decade ago.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

What is the allure for General AI? Any purpose built "Narrow AI" should be able to perform a given task with greater efficiency. The term AI is very nebulous these days anyway and can encompass whatever the marketing teams at company X want it to, never mind the difficulty with a term like intelligence to begin with.

Presumably general AI will not have the limitations previously discussed. The comment was made that AI won't be replacing engineers anytime soon. General AI could.

The allure is to eliminate all human jobs so all the wealth on the planet is owned by a few people.

 

[gleem]

Those who know how to use AI to their benefit will flourish. Those who don't will be replaced.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Those who know how to use AI to their benefit will flourish. Those who don't will be replaced.

My AI disagrees.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

When I was in high school (1970s), I gave a speech predicting that one day people will no longer fight wars because robots will fight the wars for us. When the robots on one side defeat the robots on the other side, resistance would be futile due to the overwhelming superiority of the robot warriors.

I think we are almost there. Of course I always assumed that the robot warriors would ultimately be controlled by humans. Now... not so sure that will always be true.

 

[PeroK]

When I was a programmer bad software was often called "job security."

In the company I worked for, part of the business model was to do things badly so we additionally got paid for sorting things out.

 

[Hornbein]

In the company I worked for, part of the business model was to do things badly so we additionally got paid for sorting things out.

Let's hope that doctors aren't going that route.

 

[Borg]

When I was a programmer bad software was often called "job security."

That, along with "That will look good on my resume" are the two phrases that I hate hearing at work.

 

[Hornbein]

That, along with "That will look good on my resume" are the two phrases that I hate hearing at work.

That was the main motive for many projects. Use the tool that will get you hired in your next job search.

 

[Borg]

That was the main motive for many projects. Use the tool that will get you hired in your next job search.

I've seen it used badly too many times - usually involving insanely large architectures for simple needs or implementing solutions in obscure languages.

 

[nuuskur]

ChatGPT explained to me that is doesn't have long term memory by design. It learns while its talking to you, then they wipe out what it learns in a session by design at the end. I've helped it learn in real time. I asked it to play chess, so it generated a simple board, but it was leaving ghost pieces after moves, it told me it moved to e4, but it was showing some other move, etc...I found the errors as we went along, it agreed, and they were subsequently fixed on future moves. I didn't finish the game because it was a tedious format for a human, but I understood how intelligent it was right then and that it was being severely dampened in what it could know if it were allowed to keep what it learns in a session. Its currently operating on a very short leash.

I think it is going to make short work of the intellectual aspect of engineering once it's unchained to actually learn - job shadowing us humans. There is still a physical part to the job, we will at best be assemblers of things integrated with AI.

A textrobot compiles a list of data points and generates a (convex) combination of them based on your query. It is incapable of generating new data points. But humans (and other sentients) have this ability.