A paradox about energy balance and steady state

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter fluidistic
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Paradox Thermodynamics
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on a paradox involving a special material in thermal contact with two reservoirs at different temperatures, which generates internal currents akin to Eddy currents. These currents produce Joule heat, leading to a steady-state condition that paradoxically results in a non-steady state. The heat equation derived from non-equilibrium thermodynamics indicates that the input and output energy must balance, yet the relationship between Joule heat and a special heat source reveals an inconsistency, suggesting that the steady state cannot be achieved. The conversation also touches on the potential for simulation using COMSOL to explore these phenomena further.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of non-equilibrium thermodynamics
  • Familiarity with heat transfer equations and concepts
  • Knowledge of finite element analysis and simulation tools like COMSOL
  • Basic grasp of tensor mathematics and vector calculus
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the principles of non-equilibrium thermodynamics
  • Study the heat equation and its applications in thermal systems
  • Explore finite element analysis using COMSOL for thermal simulations
  • Investigate the properties of materials that exhibit special thermal behaviors
USEFUL FOR

Researchers, physicists, and engineers interested in thermal dynamics, materials science, and those exploring advanced simulation techniques for thermal systems.

fluidistic
Gold Member
Messages
3,932
Reaction score
283
I met a paradox I am unable to resolve.
Here it goes: a special material is placed in thermal contact with 2 reservoirs kept at different temperature. The boundaries of the material that aren't in contact with the reservoirs are thermally insulated. The material being special is able to generate internal currents, a bit like Eddy currents for conductors when placed in a time varying magnetic field. These internal currents generate a Joule heat worth ##\rho \vec J^2## (always positive, i.e. heating the material) in all points in the material where ##\vec J## the current density does not vanish. There is an additional heat source that is more complicated than Joule heat, locally it can be either a cooling or a heating. Note that the currents are internal to the material, they do not have any normal component on the boundaries.
The paradox is that the steady state condition leads to a non steady state condition.
We know for sure that ##\vec J \neq \vec 0## because ##\nabla \times \vec J \propto \Delta T>0##. The material acts therefore a bit like a heat engine, it seems to exploit a temperature difference and do work.... on itself rather than on a load.
The steady-state heat equation has the form ##\nabla \cdot (\kappa \nabla T) + q_\text{Joule} + q_\text{special}=0##, it is derived from non equilibrium thermodynamics and conservation of energy, ##\nabla \cdot \vec J_U=0## where ##\vec J_U=J_Q + V\vec J## is the flux of internal energy, ##\vec J_Q=-\kappa \nabla T +ST\vec J ## is the heat flux, ##S## being a tensor. So far so good, the heat equation tells us that the temperature distribution adapts itself such that the thermal gradient creates a flux that evacuates the generated heats.
However, here comes the problem.
From the steady-state condition ##\nabla \cdot \vec J_U=0##, if we integrate ##\vec J_U## on the whole volume and use Gauss law, we find that the input energy is made of ##Q_\text{in}=\int_{\Gamma_{hot}} -\kappa \nabla T \cdot d\vec A_\text{hot}## only, and the output energy is ##Q_\text{out}=\int_{\Gamma_{cold}} -\kappa \nabla T \cdot d\vec A_\text{cold}##. We get that ##Q_\text{in} - Q_\text{out}=0## must hold for the steady-state to hold.

If we integrate the heat equation on the volume of the material and use Gauss law for the conduction term, we find that ##Q_\text{in} - Q_\text{out}=Q_\text{Joule}+Q_\text{special}## where ##Q_\text{Joule}## and ##Q_\text{special}## are the volume integrals of their respective local formulations written above. At first glance it looks like the special heat evolved has to cancel out exactly Joule heat for the steady state condition to hold. However this is impossible to hold, because Joule heat is proportional to ##\Delta T ^2## whereas the special heat is proportional to ##T \Delta T##. If, by luck, the base temperature of the material has been adjusted so that the 2 heats exactly cancel out globally one another, then we could change the base temperature and the condition cannot hold. This means the steady state condition cannot be fulfilled. But we started assuming a steady state condition... I do not understand where I go wrong.

Note that to keep things simple, no physical property depend on temperature.
 
Last edited:
Science news on Phys.org
Do there even exist real materials which could have your special property or is this just theoretical? I suggest simulation with COMSOL or some such program.
 
Last edited:
bob012345 said:
Do there even exist real materials which could have your special property or is this just theoretical? I suggest simulation with COMSOL or some such program.
Yes they do exist, I already have a finite element code that computes those quantities but I need to make.sure the results make sense.

I believe my error is in computing the surface integral of (ST+V)J dA, where J is parallel to dA. I thought this integral vanishes because J is parallel to dA on all boundaries, but S is a 2x2 matrix, or a tensor, and I suspect this can make the surface integral not vanish. T and V are scalar fields. The VJ part should yield Joule heat whereas the STJ part should yield Qspecial. Can someone tell me whether the surface integral vanishes or not?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
3K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 236 ·
8
Replies
236
Views
12K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
635
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K