A problem with evaluating an integral

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around evaluating the integral of a piecewise function defined on the interval [0, π]. Participants explore the implications of the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus (FTC) in the context of integrability and continuity, particularly focusing on the behavior of the function at a single point of discontinuity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the integral of a piecewise function and questions the application of the FTC due to continuity concerns at a specific point.
  • Another participant argues that the integral remains valid since changing a function at a single point does not affect its integrability, referencing upper and lower sums.
  • A participant notes that their textbook does not introduce integrals using the Darboux sums, which complicates their understanding.
  • Some participants discuss the justification of using the FTC for the integral of sin(x) over [0, π/2], asserting that the piecewise function has the same integral over this interval.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the exercise's placement in their textbook, questioning its relevance given the lack of prior discussion on the topic.
  • Another participant reflects on their understanding of integrability and partitions in the context of Darboux sums, attempting to justify a proof related to upper and lower sums.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the integral can be evaluated despite the discontinuity at a single point, but there is no consensus on the best approach to understanding the underlying theory or the relevance of the exercise in the textbook.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty regarding the definitions and approaches to integrals as presented in their textbooks, particularly the reliance on different methods of defining integrability.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus, piecewise functions, and the concepts of integrability in mathematical analysis may find this discussion relevant.

mahmoud2011
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\int^{\pi}_{0} f(x) dx where ,

f(x) = sin x if 0 \leq x < \frac{\pi}{2}
and f(x) = cos(x) if \frac{\pi}{2} \leq x \leq \pi

The problem is that the version I am using of Fundamental theorem is if f is continuous on some closed interval , I wrote the integral as

\int^{\pi / 2}_{0} f(x) dx + \int^{\pi}_{\pi /2} f(x) dx

but I have in the first integral f still is not continuous on [0,\pi/2]

I tried to open some references and reached another version for the theorem there f is integrable on f , and g' =f , but I couldn't do any thing

Thanks
 
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mahmoud2011 said:
but I have in the first integral f still is not continuous on [0,\pi/2]
That's no problem. This integral is the same as the integral of sin x over all of [0,pi/2], since the two functions are equal except in a single point. And if you change an integrable function in a single point (or finitely many points) then the function is still integrable with the same integral. This can be seen by using upper and lower sums.
 
The problem is that the textbook I am using doesn't introduce the integrals by first introducing the upper Darboux sums and the lower Darboux sum , it uses another approach which introduce the area as the limit of sums of approximating rectangles.
 
Thanks , Now I am reading in another textbook Which deals with this point precisely .
 
Erland said:
That's no problem. This integral is the same as the integral of sin x over all of [0,pi/2], since the two functions are equal except in a single point. And if you change an integrable function in a single point (or finitely many points) then the function is still integrable with the same integral. This can be seen by using upper and lower sums.
now I justified my solution as following , the first definite integral exist because f is integrable on [0,pi] (since it is piece-wise continuous ) , now since f is a function on [0,pi\2] where f= sin (x) ,0 ≤x≤ pi/2 , except at pi/2 , their definite integral is the same and then we can use the FTC , or I can use the version of the theorem which apply to any integrable function which is not necessary continuous we know that f is integrable on [0,pi/2] so we want to find a continuous function g such that g' = f on (0,pi/2) and g is continuous on [0,pi/2] so we see that this is g is sin (x) , ( I think all of this will be easy in practice ) , but what I am wandering of is why this is an exercise in my text-book , although it doesn't concentrate at this point yet .

Thanks
 
Last edited:
Yes, use FTC to sin x over [0,pi/2] and observe that the given function has the same integral over this interval since it differs only at one point.

I think your textbook should have mentioned thia problem,
 
Erland said:
Yes, use FTC to sin x over [0,pi/2] and observe that the given function has the same integral over this interval since it differs only at one point.

I think your textbook should have mentioned thia problem,
no , it hasn't mentioned it yet , it uses a definition of integral which depends on dividing the interval into sub intervals equal in length , so I began to read a bout the theory of integral in Advanced Calculus by agnus Taylor is this good for me .
 
Last edited:
So after I have read Integration it some Advanced Calculus books , I had only one question to ask , this only to confidence myself with only a part of of a proof ( you Know that the proof in Advanced books depend leaving details for you ) , it wrote that if f is integrable , then there exist partitions P' and P'' , such that given ε >0
U(f,P') < U(f) + ε/2 and L(f,P'') > L(f) -ε/2

Here I began to justify this to my self as following , I would only now justify the first the second one is similar , we will assume it is not true, then we have

U(f,P') ≥ U(f) + ε/2 > U(f)

and this contradicts that U(f) is the grates lower bound of of all Darboux sums
But I see that this justification is not good at all because of there is P' such that U(f,P') = U(f) + ε/2 , so I began to make another one which I see is a better one assume that
U(f,P') > U(f) + ε/4 , then this gives a contradiction , so We have

U(f,P') ≤ U(f) + ε/4
and since ε/4 < ε/2
so we have U(f,P') ≤ U(f) + ε/4 < U(f) + ε/2

Is all of What I have said is true or not



Thanks
 

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