A Puzzle: Find an Ellipse Tangent to a Circle

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a mathematical puzzle involving the determination of an ellipse that is tangent to a given circle. Participants explore the relationships between the parameters of the ellipse and the circle, including the radius of the circle, the eccentricity of the ellipse, and the distance from the circle's center to the tangent lines of the ellipse. The problem is framed as a theoretical exploration rather than a homework assignment.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines the problem, providing equations for the ellipse, circle, normal line, and a 45-degree line, and expresses uncertainty about finding the unknown parameters of the ellipse.
  • Another participant suggests that if the normal line's slope (##m_n##) equals 1, it simplifies the problem, but acknowledges that this condition may not hold for all values of the given parameters.
  • A participant points out that the assumption of ##m_n=1## may limit the solutions available for certain choices of eccentricity, radius, and distance parameters.
  • One participant clarifies that the problem is not confined to a fixed circle and that the center of the circle can vary, which introduces additional complexity regarding the eccentricity of the ellipse.
  • Another participant discusses a derived polynomial equation that includes the unknown parameter ##a##, indicating that knowing any of the other parameters could help solve for ##m_n##.
  • A participant notes a mistake in notation regarding the tangent point, indicating ongoing challenges in translating between different mathematical representations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of setting ##m_n=1##, with some suggesting it simplifies the problem while others argue it may not provide solutions for all parameter choices. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the existence of solutions under various conditions.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the problem's complexity arises from the dependencies on multiple parameters, including the eccentricity and the radius of the circle, which are not fixed. The presence of a polynomial equation that includes unknowns complicates the path to a solution.

quantumdude
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I was asked to look at a problem (not homework) in which a tangent ellipse is to be found for a circle. This puzzle is turning out to be more than I bargained for. See the attached image because hey, a picture's worth a thousand words.

The givens in this problem are to be the radius ##R_i## of the circle, the eccentricity ##e## of the ellipse, and the distance ##R_o## from the center of the circle to either of the lines tangent to the ellipse. I also have that the tangent ellipse is to be centered at the origin and that it has a horizontal major axis.

I am to find the semiaxes ##a## and ##b## of the ellipse, the center ##(h,k)## of the circle, the point ##\left(x_0,y_0\right)## of tangency, and the slope ##m_t## of the circle/ellipse at the point of tangency. The horizontal and vertical tangents to the ellipse are ##y=b## and ##x=a##, respectively, but I don't know exactly where they are.

I have developed a little bit of shorthand to make the equations simpler. I've let ##d=\sqrt{1-e^2}## and ##m_n=-1/m_t##. The latter is the slope of the normal line that passes through ##\left(x_0,y_0\right)##. I also noted the line that passes through ##(h,k)## and ##(a,b)## has slope 1, so I thought it could be of interest. I call it "the 45 degree line". So the equations of the ellipse, circle, normal line, and 45 degree line are, respectively:

$$\frac{x^2}{a^2}+\frac{y^2}{d^2a^2}=1$$
$$(x-h)^2+(y-k)^2=R_i^2$$
$$y=m_n(x-h)+k$$
$$y=x-a+da$$Here are the relationships that I have derived so far.

  • Because the center of the circle is to be the same distance from either of the tangent lines ##y=b## or ##x=a##, I have ##h=a-R_o## and ##k=da-R_o##.
  • Using the equation of the ellipse and its implicit derivative, I have ##x_0=\frac{a}{\sqrt{1+m_n^2d^2}}## and ##y_0=\frac{m_nd^2a}{\sqrt{1+m_n^2d^2}}##.
  • Plugging the last two relations into ##m_n=\frac{y_0-k}{x_0-h}## I obtained a 4th degree polynomial equation for ##m_n##. Only one problem: it also contains the unknown quantity ##a##. I'll post the equation if anyone really wants to see it, but it's really not necessary. Solving that equation would be the final step, and I would throw it into Maple anyway.
I feel like I'm on the verge of solving this problem. If I could just find any of the unknowns ##a,b,h,## or ##k##, I could find all of the others and this thing would be done. But I've been chasing my own tail for so long that I just can't see my way out of it. I'm hoping that a fresh pair of eyes will help. Thanks!
 

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If mn = 1 are you in business?
 
Yes, and I considered that too. If ##m_n=1## then the normal line *is* the 45-degree line, which certainly makes the math easier. However, if that's the case then there isn't a solution for every choice of ##e,R_i##, and ##R_o##. In fact I don't know if there's a solution for any choice of those variables if ##m_n=1##.
 
Yet, mn = 1 drops out of what you've posted. Can't say I'm comfy with the implications, and wasn't up all night mulling the geometry, but it's got me going just the same.
 
Tom Mattson said:
there isn't a solution for every choice of e,R i e,R_i, and R o R_o.
I've been confining the problem statement to a "given" circle with a "given" center, which it is not. You get to move the circle, so there is a range of eccentricity that is possible.
 
##m_n=1## does not drop out of those equations. What does drop out is this:

##d^2\left(a-R_o\right)^2m_n^4-2d^2\left(a-R_o\right)\left(da-R_o\right)m_n^3+\left(\left(a-R_o\right)^2+d^2\left(da-R_o\right)^2-e^4a^2\right)m_n^2-2\left(a-R_o\right)\left(da-R_o\right)m_n##
##+\left(da-R_o\right)^2=0##

If I had ##a## (or ##h,k,## or ##b##, which would be just as good), I could evaluate the coefficients of this equation and chuck it into Maple to solve for ##m_n##. Eccentricity is one of the givens. That's what is making this so hard. If ##a## and ##b## were both given separately, this would be an exercise in freshman calculus.
 
Lost the tangent point subscript translating between equation editors. Back to the drawing board.
 

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