A question about work and energy

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem in classical mechanics involving two observers moving relative to each other and their observations of a block of mass m moving on a rough surface. The participants explore which quantities, such as kinetic energy, work done by friction, total work done, and acceleration, would be perceived the same by both observers.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the validity of the original poster's reasoning regarding which quantities would be the same for both observers. They question the assumption that distance moved by the block would be the same for both observers and explore the implications of relative motion on measurements of displacement.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants examining the implications of relative motion on the measurements of the block's displacement and the correctness of the original poster's conclusions. Some participants suggest that the question may be incomplete, while others clarify that the relative motion of the observers rules out certain assumptions.

Contextual Notes

There is a noted ambiguity regarding the initial conditions of the observers' velocities, as the problem does not explicitly state whether they are at rest with respect to each other or not. This has led to differing interpretations of the problem's setup.

Prem1998
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Homework Statement


Consider two observers moving with respect to each other at a speed v along a straight line. They observer a block of mass m moving a distance x on a rough surface. The following quantity (or quantities) will be same as observed by the two observers:
(a) kinetic energy of the block at time t
(b) work done by friction
(c) total work done on the block
(d) acceleration of the block

Homework Equations


This is only a thoughtful question so I don't think equations are needed. But if it is a rule, then:
KE=1/2mv^2 W= integration Fdx or FX when F is constant, etc.

The Attempt at a Solution


I figured out that the answers should be b,c and d. It can't definitely be 'a' because the velocity of the block seen by both observers will be different. Now, since none of the observers are accelerating themselves, so they both will see the same acceleration of the block, so 'd' is correct. It is not a relativistic physics question, so 'm' will be the same for both. So, resultant force F=ma will also be same for both. And, distance moved, x is also same for both. So, total work done should be same, hence, 'c' is correct. Again, for both observers, the normal reaction on the block is same and coefficient of kinetic friction is also same. So, both observers will observe the same frictional force on the block and again the same distance moved 'x'. So, work done by friction is also same. Hence, b is correct.
But, in the answers section in the book, it was written that only 'd' is correct. Doesn't assuming that 'd' is correct lead to the conclusion that 'b' and 'd' are also correct?
 
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Prem1998 said:
And, distance moved, x is also same for both.

Why do you think that distance moved would be same for both the observers ?
 
conscience said:
Why do you think that distance moved would be same for both the observers ?
Why would the distance 'x' change? There is negligible length contraction here.
 
If the two observers are moving with respect to each other ,they cannot measure same displacement of the block .
 
conscience said:
If the two observers are moving with respect to each other ,they cannot measure same displacement of the block .
Oh, I'm sorry. So, that eliminates 'b' and 'c' even if the resultant and frictional forces are same for both observers. Thanks. Isn't the question incomplete as it did not say in the book that v=/=0. I mean, v could be 0 leading to the same value of 'x'.
 
Prem1998 said:
Isn't the question incomplete as it did not say in the book that v=/=0. I mean, v could be 0 leading to the same value of 'x'.

The question clearly states that the two observers are moving relative to each other
That rules out the possibility of them being at rest .

Instead if the question had only stated that there are two moving observers , then there could have been a possibility that the two observers were at rest with respect to each other measuring same displacement of the block .
 

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