A weird sentence in my book Need clarifcation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a sentence from a book regarding nuclear fusion, specifically addressing the apparent contradiction in describing the mass of the resulting nucleus as both "heavier" and "lighter" than the constituent parts. Participants explore the implications of mass-energy conversion during fusion and the definitions of mass in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion over the statement that the mass of the new nucleus is both "heavier" and "lighter," questioning the accuracy of the description.
  • Another participant clarifies that when two hydrogen nuclei fuse to form a helium nucleus, the mass of the helium nucleus is indeed less than the combined mass of the hydrogen nuclei, with the missing mass converted into energy.
  • A different participant reiterates that the mass of the new particle after fusion is less than the sum of the original particles, attributing the missing mass to energy released during the reaction, referencing nuclear binding energy.
  • One participant explains that while the resulting nucleus is heavier than any single constituent nucleus, it is lighter than the total mass of all the light nuclei combined, emphasizing the distinction in definitions of "heavier" and "lighter."
  • Another participant highlights the energy release in fusion, relating it to the principles of mass-energy equivalence and its implications in nuclear reactions, such as in hydrogen bombs.
  • A participant provides a mathematical representation of the mass relationship before and after fusion, indicating that the mass of the fused nucleus is greater than any individual light nucleus but less than the total mass of all light nuclei combined.
  • One participant comments on the potential for errors in textbooks, suggesting that while most texts are edited for clarity, some explanations may still seem strange or confusing.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the concept that the mass of the new nucleus after fusion is less than the sum of the original nuclei, but there is no consensus on the clarity of the book's wording or the implications of describing the new nucleus as both heavier and lighter.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of mass definitions in nuclear fusion and the nuances in how mass is perceived before and after the fusion process. There are unresolved questions regarding the clarity of the book's language and the potential for misinterpretation.

ehabmozart
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It is written in my book under the sub-heading Nuclear Fusion... "If we take some light nuclei and force them to join together, the mass of the new HEAVIER nucleus will be LESS than the consistuent parts, as some mass is converted into energy... This is completely contradicting... Is it actually heavier or lighter... If any of them , why have they written both?
 
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hi ehabmozart! :smile:

i don't see the contradiction :confused:

if two H nuclei fuse to make an He nucleus,

then the mass of the He is less than twice the mass of an H …

the "missing" mass has become energy, which is radiated off :smile:
 
As tiny-tim said, the mass of the new particle after fusion will be less than the combined masses of the particles before fusion. The missing mass has been liberated as energy from the reaction. The amount of energy released depends on the amount of nuclear binding energy of the particles before and after fusion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_binding_energy
 
ehabmozart said:
It is written in my book under the sub-heading Nuclear Fusion... "If we take some light nuclei and force them to join together, the mass of the new HEAVIER nucleus will be LESS than the consistuent parts, as some mass is converted into energy... This is completely contradicting... Is it actually heavier or lighter... If any of them , why have they written both?

We often refer to some elements as being heavier or lighter than others, when what we mean is that a SINGLE nucleus of one element will be heavier than a SINGLE nucleus of the other.

Using that definition, we say that fusion combines multiple light nuclei into a single heavier one (just as fission splits a single heavier nucleus into multiple lighter ones). And it's possible that the sum of the masses of all the lighter nuclei we're fusing together will exceed the mass of the single heavier nucleus that results - it's heavier than anyone of the constituents but not all of them.
 
ehabmozart said:
It is written in my book under the sub-heading Nuclear Fusion... "If we take some light nuclei and force them to join together, the mass of the new HEAVIER nucleus will be LESS than the consistuent parts, as some mass is converted into energy... This is completely contradicting... Is it actually heavier or lighter... If any of them , why have they written both?

E = mc^2 The excess mass is released as energy. It's what makes a H-bomb a bomb.

It's the power in nuclear fusion.

The new heavier nucleus doesn't stay heavy for very long - it releases the excess mass as energy - think of a blinding flash and a mushroom cloud.
 
ehabmozart said:
It is written in my book under the sub-heading Nuclear Fusion... "If we take some light nuclei and force them to join together, the mass of the new HEAVIER nucleus will be LESS than the consistuent parts, as some mass is converted into energy... This is completely contradicting... Is it actually heavier or lighter... If any of them , why have they written both?
The new nucleus is much heavier than the individual light nucleii that were initially separate. However, The new nucleus is lighter than the group of light nucleii. In other words:
Let M_Fused be the mass of the new nucleus after fusion.
Let m_1, m_2,..., m_N be the masses of the light nucleii before fusion.
M_Fused>m_i for any value of i between 1 and N.
M_Fused<m_1+m_2+m_3+...+m_N
Of course, the amount of energy, E_Fusion, given off by the fusion is:
E_Fusion=(m_1+m_2+m_3+...+m_N-M_Fused)c^2

Boom!
 
A weird sentence in my book

Well, that one seems absolutely correct, but you may well find a sentence or two sometime,somewhere that isn't. So it's a good idea to ask, even classmates, because most texts are edited by experts to eliminate any errors and clarify explanations to make them as clear as possible. On the other other hand, some correct explanations ARE,well, weird. See my signature below.
 

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