About energy conservation in QM?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of energy conservation in quantum mechanics (QM), particularly in systems interacting with varying energy sources. Participants explore the implications of Hamiltonians and interactions on energy conservation laws.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the energy conservation law holds when a system interacts with a varying energy source, suggesting that the Hamiltonian's commutation implies conservation but raises concerns about energy exchange with the environment.
  • Another participant proposes a framework for understanding the system as a composite of a system S and a heat bath B, discussing the total Hamiltonian and its relation to conserved quantities.
  • The same participant notes that energy conservation may not hold in the presence of interactions, indicating that specific conditions must be met for conservation to apply.
  • A later post reiterates the initial question about energy conservation and introduces a mathematical expression that shows energy is not conserved if the Hamiltonian has explicit time dependence due to environmental coupling.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the conditions under which energy conservation applies in quantum systems, indicating that multiple competing views remain on the topic.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations related to assumptions about Hamiltonians, the nature of interactions, and the dependence on time, which remain unresolved.

fxdung
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Does energy conservation law still hold if the system contact with varying source of energy?
Because in QM the Hamintonian of the system always commune with itself,so the conservation law still correct.But if it is,where is the exchange energy between the system and the environment?
 
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So you are thinking of a composite system which you split into a heat bath (general term) and the system you are interested in?

If we call the system S and the bath B we can write the total Hamiltonian as ##H = H_S\otimes I_B + I_S\otimes H_B + H_{int}## where ##I_{S/B}## are unit operators on the respective Hilbert spaces.
Clearly the total Hamiltonian is related to some conserved quantity, the total energy of the combined system.
As is the case for the parts S and B when ##H_{int} = 0##, here ##H_{int}## contains the interactions.

Here we used that the Hilbert space ##\mathcal{H}_{total} = \mathcal{H}_S\otimes \mathcal{H}_B## and that ##(A\otimes B)\cdot (C\otimes D) = (A\cdot C) \otimes (B\cdot D)##

You can see this by showing ##[H_S\otimes I_B, I_S\otimes H_B] = 0## (trivial).
However in the presence of interations, which is the case you are looking at we generally no longer have this conservation.
The conservation remains valid if ##[H_S\otimes I_B, H_{int}] = [ I_S\otimes H_B, H_{int}] = 0##.

Does this clarify your question?

Edit; Demystifier explained it in simpler terms if this is a bit overkill
 
fxdung said:
Does energy conservation law still hold if the system contact with varying source of energy?
Because in QM the Hamintonian of the system always commune with itself,so the conservation law still correct.But if it is,where is the exchange energy between the system and the environment?
In general
$$\frac{dA}{dt}=\frac{\partial A}{\partial t} +\frac{i}{\hbar}[H,A]$$
so for ##A=H## we have
$$\frac{dH}{dt}=\frac{\partial H}{\partial t}.$$
So if ##H## has explicit dependence on time (due to coupling with the environment), then energy is not conserved.
 
Thank you very much for your helpings!
 
Last edited:

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