Abstract Algebra group problem.

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a group under addition formed by a proper subset of integers, specifically focusing on the inclusion of three distinct elements from a set defined by distinct primes p and q. Participants are tasked with identifying which three elements from the set {p, p+q, pq, p^q, q^p} can form such a group.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the closure of the group under addition and the significance of integer factors. There is exploration of the implications of being a proper subset of integers and the necessity for elements to share common factors. Some participants question the relevance of hints provided and the conditions under which the elements can be grouped.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants sharing insights about the properties of the elements in the proposed groups. Some guidance has been offered regarding the nature of coprime elements and their implications for the group structure, leading to further exploration of the problem's constraints.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the group must be a proper subset of the integers, and there is an emphasis on the necessity for the elements to have common factors or to be coprime, which could affect their classification as a group under addition.

WHOAguitarninja
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ProbelmLet p and q be distinct primes. Suppose that H is a porper subset of the integers and H is a group under addition that contains exactly three elements of the set {p, p+q, pq, p^q, q^p}. Determine which of the following are the three elements in H.
a.pq, p^q, q^p
b. p+q, pq, p^q
c. p, p+q, pq
d. p, p^q, q^p
e. p, pq, p^q

Homework Equations


The answer is e, as it's given in the book.

The Attempt at a Solution


My basic strategy here was to try and show it's only closed under addition for e. It's easy to see that adding p to itself q times yields pq, however the same cannot be said for p^q. This didn't seem satisfactory then. My next idea, the one that MIGHT be right, but I'm very much not sure, is that e contains the only terms that are integer factors of p. You know p, pq, and p^q are integers when divided by p, and furthermore they are the only ones that are (since p and q are prime). However, I don't know if this is even signficant, and I certainly don't see the significance under a group who's operation is addition.

EDIT - Actually I suppose it's significant in that being an integer multiple it can be seen as "P+P+P+..." an integer number of times. Is that all there is to it? It seems a bit of an odd problem if so.
 
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Hint 1: H has to be a proper subset of Z
Hint 2: If x and y are coprime, then there exists integers a and b such that ax + by = gcd(x,y)
 
I've been fiddling for a little while and can't seem to come up with anything satisfactory. The crux of the problem seems to be that the items in the group must be integers, however I can't seem to find the relevance of your second hint. Having fiddled with it, it doesn't seem to get me anywhere.

Is it not important that only the terms in e can have p factored out and have the resulting term still be integer valued?
 
WHOAguitarninja said:
I've been fiddling for a little while and can't seem to come up with anything satisfactory. The crux of the problem seems to be that the items in the group must be integers, however I can't seem to find the relevance of your second hint. Having fiddled with it, it doesn't seem to get me anywhere.

Is it not important that only the terms in e can have p factored out and have the resulting term still be integer valued?
Yes, that's good. Since p, pq, and pq are integer multiples of p, they can appear in the subgroup of Z consisting of all integer multiples of p, which is indeed a proper subgroup. Now with all the other options, a-d, you can't factor out p from each of the three elements. So p is never a common factor of the elements in a-d. But you need to show that for each of a-d, the three elements have no common factors at all.

The point of my hint was that if in each of a-d, you can find a pair of elements that are coprime, e.g. in b, pq and p+q are coprime. Therefore, there exist integers a and b such that a(pq) + b(p+q) = 1. But then 1 would be in H, and hence H would be all of Z, contradicting Hint 1.
 
AKG said:
Yes, that's good. Since p, pq, and pq are integer multiples of p, they can appear in the subgroup of Z consisting of all integer multiples of p, which is indeed a proper subgroup. Now with all the other options, a-d, you can't factor out p from each of the three elements. So p is never a common factor of the elements in a-d. But you need to show that for each of a-d, the three elements have no common factors at all.

The point of my hint was that if in each of a-d, you can find a pair of elements that are coprime, e.g. in b, pq and p+q are coprime. Therefore, there exist integers a and b such that a(pq) + b(p+q) = 1. But then 1 would be in H, and hence H would be all of Z, contradicting Hint 1.


Thanks. That makes perfect sense. I wasn't thinking more along the lines of showing a-d were not groups than were not subgroups. I suppose it then makes sense that I could never explain that they weren't, because they are! Thanks a lot, that really helped.
 

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