Abstract algebra question (math olympiad)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem in abstract algebra concerning a non-cyclic group of order pn, where p is a prime number. Participants explore various proofs and approaches to demonstrate that such a group has at least p+3 subgroups. The scope includes theoretical reasoning and mathematical proofs.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes using induction with n = 2 as a base case, suggesting that G = Zp x Zp has several subgroups leading to a total of p+3.
  • Another participant introduces the Frattini subgroup and argues that since G is non-cyclic, G/Φ(G) is an elementary abelian p-group of rank at least 2, which implies at least p+3 subgroups.
  • A participant expresses concern that the original poster (OP) should discover the answer through hints rather than direct solutions.
  • There is a discussion about the appropriate educational level for introducing the concept of the Frattini subgroup, with opinions varying on when students first encounter it.
  • The OP acknowledges understanding the general idea but expresses a need to study p-Sylow groups and related concepts in more detail.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple approaches and proofs, indicating that there is no consensus on a single method. The discussion includes differing opinions on the educational context of the Frattini subgroup and the effectiveness of hints versus direct answers.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the OP may not yet have studied p-Sylow groups in detail, which could limit their understanding of the proofs presented. There are also references to unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the nature of the group G.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and educators in abstract algebra, particularly those exploring group theory, Sylow theorems, and subgroup structures.

AdrianZ
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Let G be a non-cyclic group of order pn where p is a prime number. Prove that G has at least p+3 subgroups.

Could anyone offer a solution to this problem?
 
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How many cyclic subgroups does such a group have?? (i.e. generated by one element).
 
have you tried induction, using n = 2 as your base case:

G = Zp x Zp

subgroups:

G
Zp x {0}
{0} x Zp
<(1,k)>, for p-1 choices of k (k ≠ 0)
{(0,0)}

total: 1+1+1+(p-1)+1 = p+3

for the induction step, you have two cases to prove:

G has a non-cyclic subgroup of order pk, k > 1 (easy case)
G has only cyclic subgroups (hard case)

for the second case (i haven't worked out all the details), i think you can use the fact that G has a non-trivial center, to reduce it to the case that G is abelian.

now if G is abelian and has only one subgroup of order pk, for every k < n, then G would be cyclic, and by supposition G is non-cyclic (appeal to sylow for existence of a subgroup of order pk)

so we can assume that for some 1< k < n, G has two distinct subgroups of order pk. but then we have two distinct subgroups of order p (by Cauchy), say H and K, and since G is abelian HK is a subgroup of G.

then: since G is supposed to be non-cyclic with only cyclic subgroups, HK must be cyclic, contradicting the fact that it has 2 distinct subgroups (H and K) of order p.

so G must not be abelian, and that should take care of it (unless I've done something stupid...could be).
 
Here's a quick proof. Let [itex]\Phi(G)[/itex] be the Frattini subgroup of G (= intersection of maximal subgps of G). Then [itex]G/\Phi(G) = (\mathbb Z/p\mathbb Z)^k[/itex] for some [itex]k\geq 1[/itex] and moreover k=1 iff G is cyclic. Since G isn't cyclic, we see that [itex]G/\Phi(G)[/itex] is an elementary abelian p-group of rank at least 2, hence has at least (p^2-1)/(p-1)=p+1 subgroups of index p. Consequently G has at least p+1 subgroups of index p. Now throw in the trivial subgroup and G itself to see that G has at least p+3 subgroups.
 
morphism said:
Here's a quick proof. Let [itex]\Phi(G)[/itex] be the Frattini subgroup of G (= intersection of maximal subgps of G). Then [itex]G/\Phi(G) = (\mathbb Z/p\mathbb Z)^k[/itex] for some [itex]k\geq 1[/itex] and moreover k=1 iff G is cyclic. Since G isn't cyclic, we see that [itex]G/\Phi(G)[/itex] is an elementary abelian p-group of rank at least 2, hence has at least (p^2-1)/(p-1)=p+1 subgroups of index p. Consequently G has at least p+1 subgroups of index p. Now throw in the trivial subgroup and G itself to see that G has at least p+3 subgroups.

by gosh, that's slick...let me ask you this, at what level do you think students get their first exposure to the Frattini subgroup?
 
Sigh... I was hoping that the OP would discover the answer by our hints...

The different proofs are all nice though.
 
micromass said:
Sigh... I was hoping that the OP would discover the answer by our hints...

The different proofs are all nice though.

in a perfect world, which this is not, the OP will examine each reply and turn, and think deeply on them. if that happy event comes to pass, perhaps they will gain more than just "the answer".
 
Deveno said:
by gosh, that's slick...let me ask you this, at what level do you think students get their first exposure to the Frattini subgroup?
I'd say graduate-level, if at all.

re: micromass: in principle, I generally agree with you. That said, I think this problem is somewhat unlike the others that get posted here, and I genuinely think that it hasn't been ruined. Like Deveno says, each of the first three posts above contains ideas (and mini-exercises) for the OP to ponder.
 
I read the answers, I got the idea but didn't fully understand them. I haven't studied p-sylow groups in details yet, I guess I need to work on the class equation and sylow theorem and reply later.
morphism's answer using the Frattini group sounds interesting because it's short and quick, so I hope one day I would have the opportunity to study the Frattini group as well.

Thanks for the help guys.
 

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