AC frequency and power of an electrical appliance

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the impact of AC frequency on the power output of electrical appliances, specifically focusing on a resistive heating element and the implications of changing frequency without altering voltage or current. The scope includes theoretical considerations and practical applications related to power consumption and electrical standards.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the frequency of the power grid is typically 50-60 Hz and questions whether changing the frequency to 75 Hz would affect the power output of a 2000 watt heater running on 220 volts and 9 amps.
  • Another participant suggests that small changes to the mains frequency would not significantly affect the power dissipated in resistive heating elements, but could impact appliances with motors or programmable time clocks that rely on frequency.
  • A participant expresses a belief that increasing frequency might lead to more heat production without changing power consumption, although they acknowledge uncertainty in this assumption.
  • One reply challenges the idea that increasing frequency could result in more power output, stating that it would violate conservation of energy and explaining the relationship between voltage, current, and power in AC systems, particularly emphasizing the role of rms values.
  • The same participant notes that while resistive loads behave predictably, inductive or capacitive loads introduce more complexity, suggesting a need for further exploration of those cases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effects of frequency changes on power output, with no consensus reached on the implications for resistive versus inductive loads. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the potential for increased heat production without changes in power consumption.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the importance of understanding rms voltage and current in AC power calculations, but there are unresolved assumptions about how frequency changes might interact with different types of loads.

Alexandar
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So the frequency in the power grid is 50 - 60 Hz depending on country's electrical standard.
If I have a ~2000 watt heater that runs on 220 volts ~ 9 amps at 50 Hz, would increasing or decreasing the frequency effect the power output of the device. For example if I make the device run at 75 Hz without changing voltage or current would the output power of the device be increased. I haven't learned any mathematical expressions involving frequency when calculating power (W = I * V). If anyone could provide such it will be helpful.
 
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Small changes to the mains frequency won't significantly change the power dissipated in something like a resistive heating element. They might change the power consumed by appliances that use certain types of motor. Some types of programmable time clock rely on the mains frequency so appliances fitted with those may run fast and operate more frequently meaning a greater average power consumption.

Are you asking just for curiosity or do you have an application?
 
CWatters said:
Small changes to the mains frequency won't significantly change the power dissipated in something like a resistive heating element. They might change the power consumed by appliances that use certain types of motor. Some types of programmable time clock rely on the mains frequency so appliances fitted with those may run fast and operate more frequently meaning a greater average power consumption.

Are you asking just for curiosity or do you have an application?

I was thinking that by increasing the frequency without changing other values like volts and current could lead to more heat production without change in power consumption. Maybe I am wrong to assume this but it seems to make sense.

AC > Frequency Converter > Device. Please explain if I am wrong why and how does it actually work.
 
If it worked as you think it would mean that more power was coming out of the frequency converter than was going in. That would violate conservation of energy.

For DC you are probably familiar with the equation..

Power = Volts * Amps

In the case of AC the instantaneous power is also given by that equation but you are normally interested in the average power. In the case of AC the voltage and current changes with time. You could sample both and multiply all the samples together to calculate the instantaneous power, then calculate the average power from that. However there is a way to "cheat" and multiply the "average" voltage by the "average" current to get the average power.

I put average in quotes because it's actually the rms voltage and current you use. If you aren't familiar with rms see...
http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/practical-physics/explaining-rms-voltage-and-current

The rms voltage or current doesn't change if the frequency changes so the average power doesn't change either.

In the case of resistive loads that's about all there is to say. However if the loads are inductive or capacitive then things can get more complicated but perhaps leave that until you are really happy with the above.
 

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