Accelerating a mass at very high acceleration @very low time

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the feasibility of applying extremely high acceleration (up to 10,000 g) to an object in a very short time frame (20-30 ms), particularly in the context of space research and projectile acceleration systems. Participants explore various methods and technologies, including centrifuges and particle accelerators, to achieve such accelerations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about systems capable of achieving 10,000 g acceleration in 20-30 ms, noting that centrifuges typically require longer times.
  • Another participant calculates that 10,000 g at 25 ms results in a speed of 2500 m/s over a distance of approximately 30 m, relating this to the HARP project and railgun designs.
  • A question is posed regarding the shock experienced by protons at the LHC, suggesting a connection to the original inquiry about technological limits.
  • There is a call for clarification on the term "shock" as it pertains to relativistic particles, along with a suggestion to separate discussions about particle accelerators due to their significantly higher acceleration capabilities.
  • A participant mentions that protons at the LHC experience accelerations on the order of 3 trillion g, emphasizing that such conditions are not achievable for larger objects.
  • Another participant argues that while the LHC's technology is relevant for protons, it does not apply to macroscopic objects, reiterating the importance of the calculations presented earlier.
  • One participant humorously engages with the topic by calculating the average radial acceleration of particles in the LHC, estimating it to be around 10^12 g.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance of LHC technology to the original question about accelerating macroscopic objects. There is no consensus on the applicability of particle accelerator technology to the proposed scenario, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to achieve the desired acceleration.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in applying particle accelerator technology to larger objects and the need for further clarification on terms like "shock" in the context of relativistic physics. The calculations and comparisons made are contingent on specific conditions and assumptions that may not be universally applicable.

emam
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Dear all,
I would like to know if someone has experience with projectile accelerator (or mass accelerators).
I am working in space research field and here is my question:
I would like to know if we can find a system or a machine permitting to apply very high acceleration (like 10'000 g) at very low time (like 20-30 ms) to an object?

Usually with a centrifuge we can achieve this kind of acceleration, but in very longer time).
However, does someone know a way to have a device to give at least a shock of 10000 g at few ms?
Many thanks
 
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10'000 g at 25 ms gives 2500 m/s over ~30 m distance. Those numbers are close to the HARP project and not so far away from the railgun designs that are tested.
 
How much shock does a proton at LHC get?
 
Define "shock" (in a way that makes sense for relativistic particles).

And I think it would be better to start a separate thread for accelerations in particle accelerators, as they are orders of magnitude higher.
 
How many g forces does a proton experience in max acceleration at LHC, it is relevant to the OP in the sense of a "technological limit". He specifically asked for someone with this experience.
 
It is a technological limit for particles close to the speed of light with one elementary charge per proton mass, something impossible to achieve for anything larger than a proton.
As seen in the frame of earth, they have a curvature radius of about 3km and a speed extremely close to the speed of light, that gives an acceleration of about 3*1013 m/s2 (about 3 trillion g). Smaller accelerators achieve larger values as the speed is very similar but the curvature radius is smaller.
 
jerromyjon said:
How many g forces does a proton experience in max acceleration at LHC, it is relevant to the OP in the sense of a "technological limit". He specifically asked for someone with this experience.
It's not especially relevant as a technological limit, because the technologies used to accelerate protons along a circular path in the LHC are not applicable to accelerating macroscopic objects in a straight line. The answer in #2 is more to the point.

However, because I'm a sucker for off the wall questions I grabbed a metaphorical envelope and calculated the average radial acceleration of a particle in the LHC ring to be something around ##10^{12} g##.
 

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