Active burn control by using microwaves to control the detonation of the engine

[Andrewtv848]

TL;DR

using microwaves to control the detonation of the engine.

I was thinking the other day, would it be possible to have microwaves heat the air fuel mixture to activation point and have the microwaves bounce back off the gas to be picked up by a computer that generates a 3d image. this 3d image could be used to heat the gas up in a uniform way so as to control turbulence and increase volumetric efficiency. Go easy, I only have my high school diploma.

 

[anorlunda]

What happens to the gas after heating and the first 3D image? It rises like hot air from a campfire, and smears all subsequent images.

You didn't comment on the laser light shows. How is your 3D image different than those?

 

[russ_watters]

I was thinking the other day, would it be possible to have microwaves heat the air fuel mixture to activation point and have the microwaves bounce back off the gas to be picked up by a computer that generates a 3d image. this 3d image could be used to heat the gas up in a uniform way so as to control turbulence and increase volumetric efficiency. Go easy, I only have my high school diploma.

What kind of engine? What problem are you trying to solve (e.g., is this a known limitation?)?

 

[anorlunda]

Summary:: using microwaves to control the detonation of the engine.

Whoops, I got this thread mixed up with another thread. Sorry.

Disregard post #2.

 

[Andrewtv848]

Imagine a microwave ignition system in a ICE that had the ability to use the return waves that bounce off the air fuel mixture to generate a 3d image. This data could be used to heat the air fuel mixture to a threshold degree based on density and hover on the diminishing returns that are how quickly you could ignite the AFM. optimizing the detonation right down to the the piston stroke. Hopefully achieving a higher thermal efficiency then a conventional microwave spark plug and all over the rev range. using directed energy to pin point the different pressures and size and shape of the AFM.

Would it be worthy of a patent?

[mod note: post moved to existing thread on the same subject]

 

[Baluncore]

This data could be used to heat the air fuel mixture to a threshold degree based on density and hover on the diminishing returns that are how quickly you could ignite the AFM. optimizing the detonation right down to the the piston stroke.

Having compressed AFM ready to ignite limits the compression ratio and requires the ignition timing be accurately controlled. The detonation damages the engine by suddenly pushing the piston rings into the cylinder wall, and causing a step at the top of ring travel. The resulting taper breaks the rings.

You could get an improved economy by increasing the compression ratio. Fuel is then injected from a common rail system only when, and at the rate required. It is called a diesel engine.

 

[nettleton]

I am unclear of the direction of your question. If you are suggesting fitting a microwave system to the engine to prevent knock, I would suggest it is far more expensive than conventional systems presently in use. Knock is a phenomenon connected with the growth in concentration of free radicals ahead of the flame front. Whether a pulse of microwave radiation would destroy these is a moot point.

 

[Andrewtv848]

Having compressed AFM ready to ignite limits the compression ratio and requires the ignition timing be accurately controlled. The detonation damages the engine by suddenly pushing the piston rings into the cylinder wall, and causing a step at the top of ring travel. The resulting taper breaks the rings.

You could get an improved economy by increasing the compression ratio. Fuel is then injected from a common rail system only when, and at the rate required. It is called a diesel engine.

Could you limit how much is ignited at once so you are not pounding the piston rings? How did microwave ignition the company get around this issue?

 

[Baluncore]

Imagine a microwave ignition system in a ICE that had the ability to use the return waves that bounce off the air fuel mixture to generate a 3d image.

Common or garden microwaves are too long to image the thin flat cavity, so you would need far infrared wavelengths to construct an image. That image would show the flame front as it started to spread through the mix, but more because of the IR generated than because of the reflection from the flame front. The metallic combustion chamber would echo with reflected EM radiation, which would blot out any possible image.

Could you limit how much is ignited at once so you are not pounding the piston rings?

No. Once initiated, the flame front propagates through the mixture and cannot be stopped. Since the valves are closed during the power stroke, the only way to control the rate of combustion is by direct injection of liquid fuel, through an atomiser, at the rate required.

How did microwave ignition the company get around this issue?

I was unaware that such an engine was available. Do you have a link?
A microwave corona discharge should ignite the mixture in a similar way to a spark plug.

 

[Andrewtv848]

Technology – MWI Micro Wave Ignition AG (mwi-ag.com)
Thanks for the post, I had a hard time letting go of this one because I felt it was finally the one.