Active power dissipated by a resistor from DC to RF

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the power dissipated by a resistor at high frequencies and its behavior at lower frequencies, including DC. Participants explore the mathematical equations governing power dissipation in resistors and the implications of characteristic impedance in transmission lines.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an equation for power dissipation at high frequencies and questions its applicability at lower frequencies and DC.
  • Another participant asserts that the equation for characteristic impedance (Z0) becomes indeterminate at DC, suggesting it won't deliver power.
  • A subsequent post corrects a notation error but reiterates the inquiry about the relationship between the two equations for power dissipation.
  • Another participant notes that at DC, the load impedance's series capacitance prevents current flow, except during the initial switch-on phase.
  • One participant argues that when the impedance is purely resistive, current does flow at DC, expressing a desire for a smooth transition between the high-frequency and DC equations.
  • A later reply questions the practicality of working with reactances at very low frequencies, suggesting that transmission line equations become meaningless at such scales and that reconciling AC and DC behavior requires limits that complicate calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the equations at DC and the nature of the transition between AC and DC power dissipation. There is no consensus on how to reconcile the two equations or the implications of impedance at low frequencies.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the equations at DC, including indeterminate forms and the role of reactance, which complicate the analysis. The discussion reflects uncertainty regarding the mathematical transition between high-frequency and DC scenarios.

aabbaa11
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TL;DR
My question is what is the connection between equations on the power dissipated by resistor in DC and high frequency?
Hello all PF members!

I was wondering about the power dissipated by resistor at high frequency which is:
##P=Re\left \{ U\cdot I^{*} \right \}=Re\left \{ \frac{\left |V^{+} \right |^{^{2}}}{2\left |Z_{c} \right |}\cdot (1-\left |\Gamma \right |^{2} )\right \}##, (1)
where:
##Z_{c}## - characteristic impedance of the waveguide (transmission line) = ##\sqrt{\frac{R_{c}+ j\omega L_{c}}{G_{c}+ j\omega C_{c}}}##
##V^{+} ## - amplitude of incident wave (to the resistor)
##\Gamma## - reflection coefficient = ##\frac{Z_{L}-Z_{c}}{Z_{L}+Z_{c}}##, where ##Z_{L}## is load impedance.

These equations work fine at high frequency. The problem (and my question) is about the case of lower frequency and DC. When the frequency is going down the ##\left | Z_{c} \right |## is going to +inf, as well as ##1-\left |\Gamma \right |^{2} ## which is going to 0. Thus, the total active power is equal to 0 at DC. I can assume, that equation (1) represents the active power delivered only by wave, so for DC = 0. But as we know, the active power at DC is still transferred to the resistor:
##P=\frac{U^{2}}{R_{L}}## (2).
My question is: Which is the relation between (1) and (2)? Is equation (1) simplified somehow?

Thank you in advance!
 
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For DC the equation for Z0 is indeterminate so it won't deliver.
 
sophiecentaur said:
For DC the equation for Z0 is indeterminate so it won't deliver.
Sorry, there was my mistake, there should be + instead of *, now is correct. But my question is still valid. Which is the relation between (1) and (2)?
 
At radio frequencies the Zo of the line is involved and at DC it is not, apart from the intial switch-on step function.
Further, if the load impedance has series capacitance, no current flows at DC, apart from switch-on.
 
Thank you for response! I understand your point of view. But when the impedance consists only resistance, the current flows for DC as well. I still don't see the mathematical relation between (1) and (2). There should be "smooth" switch from (1) to (2).
 
aabbaa11 said:
There should be "smooth" switch from (1) to (2).
Ii see what you are getting at but, seriously, could you expect to be working with reactances at 0.001Hz? (Add some more zeros, if you want). There is no sharp switch between AC and DC in practice. The wavelength involved with a very low frequency is so great that any transmission line connecting a source and a load is negligibly short so Transmission Line Equations become meaningless. If you want to reconcile the two regimes then you would need to take the limit of the AC equations as f approaches Zero and that would make the values of some of the parameters impossible to calculate.
As with all of Science, the Maths is the slave of Science and not the other way round. Eventually, the Maths doesn't follow reality.
 

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