Adequate proof? Spivak's Calculus ; Dense sets

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a proof concerning a continuous function defined on a dense set. The original poster attempts to demonstrate that if a continuous function \( f \) equals zero on a dense set \( A \), then \( f \) must equal zero everywhere.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the original poster's indirect argument involving continuity and the implications of \( f \) being less than or greater than zero. There is a focus on whether the reasoning adequately supports the conclusion that \( f(x) = 0 \) for all \( x \).

Discussion Status

Some participants provide feedback on the clarity and structure of the original argument, suggesting that explicitly stating the continuity of \( f \) at a point could strengthen the proof. There is an acknowledgment of the indirect nature of the argument as a reasonable approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of careful phrasing in mathematical arguments and the potential need to address cases where \( f(\alpha) \) is not zero. The discussion reflects on the implications of the definition of a dense set in relation to continuity.

Derek Hart
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Homework Statement


Let A be a dense set**. Prove that if f is continuous and f(x) = 0 for all x in A, then f(x) = 0 for all x.

**A dense set is defined, in the book, as a set which contains a point in every open interval, such as the set of all irrational or all rational numbers.

Homework Equations


N/A

The Attempt at a Solution


I looked in the answer book, and spivak's proof is much different than mine. I want to know whether mine is adequate.
I began by considering a point (α, f(α)) such that f(α)<0. I then stated that there would have to be some σ so that f(x)<0 for all x such that α-σ < x <α+σ. This, however, contradicts the initial statement that A is a dense set (since f<0 for all x in (α-σ, α+σ)).
I had an almost identical argument for f>0, which i wish not to type. So does this prove that f(x)=0 for all x?
 
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Derek Hart said:

Homework Statement


Let A be a dense set**. Prove that if f is continuous and f(x) = 0 for all x in A, then f(x) = 0 for all x.

**A dense set is defined, in the book, as a set which contains a point in every open interval, such as the set of all irrational or all rational numbers.

Homework Equations


N/A

The Attempt at a Solution


I looked in the answer book, and spivak's proof is much different than mine. I want to know whether mine is adequate.
I began by considering a point (α, f(α)) such that f(α)<0. I then stated that there would have to be some σ so that f(x)<0 for all x such that α-σ < x <α+σ. This, however, contradicts the initial statement that A is a dense set (since f<0 for all x in (α-σ, α+σ)).
I had an almost identical argument for f>0, which i wish not to type. So does this prove that f(x)=0 for all x?

You didn't state it carefully, but what you are showing is that if f is continuous at ##\alpha## and ##f(\alpha) < 0## then you get a contradiction to A being dense. That is an indirect argument which is a reasonable way to prove it.
 
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LCKurtz said:
You didn't state it carefully, but what you are showing is that if f is continuous at ##\alpha## and ##f(\alpha) < 0## then you get a contradiction to A being dense. That is an indirect argument which is a reasonable way to prove it.
Alright, so to correct it I should just explicitly state that f is continuous at α?
 
You could write: Suppose ##f## is continuous at ##\alpha## and ##f(\alpha)< 0##. Then blahdy blah blah...which is a contradiction to ##A## being dense. Therefore ##f(x)## is identically zero. But instead of assuming ##f(\alpha) < 0## I would start with ##f(\alpha) \ne 0## and use absolute value signs in your argument so you don't have to do two cases.
 
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That does seem simpler. Thanks
 

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