Adiabatic approxmation, estimate of d\phi/dx

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    Adiabatic Estimate
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the adiabatic approximation in quantum mechanics, specifically focusing on the behavior of atomic orbitals and their orthogonality as the distance between them increases. Participants explore the implications of this approximation, the mathematical relationships involved, and the reasoning behind certain derivations related to the derivatives of wave functions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the parameter 'a' refers to the Bohr radius, indicating that atomic orbitals become orthogonal when the distance exceeds this value.
  • There is a question regarding why the derivative dΦ/dX should be approximately equal to the orthogonal function divided by 'a', with some participants seeking clarification on this relationship.
  • One participant argues that the orthogonality of dΦ/dX to Φ is not universally valid, providing a counterexample involving exp(ikX).
  • Another participant elaborates on the mathematical derivation of the orthogonality condition, using integration by parts and the localization of atomic orbitals to explain the behavior of shifted and unshifted orbitals.
  • There are inquiries about specific mathematical conclusions drawn from the relationships between the derivatives and the wave functions, particularly regarding the norm and the implications of orthogonality.
  • Some participants express skepticism about certain statements made in the reference text, suggesting alternative interpretations or derivations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on several points, particularly regarding the validity of certain mathematical relationships and the interpretation of the adiabatic approximation. Multiple competing views remain on the implications of the derivative relationships and the conditions under which orthogonality is achieved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion involves approximations and assumptions that may not hold universally, particularly regarding the behavior of wave functions at various distances and the conditions for orthogonality.

Derivator
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Hi,

Messiah writes in his Quantum Mechanics book in chapter XVIII, section 14 (pages 786-789):

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/4605/screenshot3si.png

What does he mean, when he says "an increment of the order of 'a' is necessary to transform the function phi into a function that is orthogonal to it"? Why do we obtain an orthogonal function, when we increase the atomic distance?

Especially, why should d Phi/ dX be roughly equal to the orthogonal function divided by 'a'?--
derivator
 
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I suppose a is the Bohr radius. The overlapp of two atomic orbitals falls of exponentially for distances >>a. Hence they are rapidly becoming orthogonal to each other to any approximation when the distance supercedes a.
 
Thank's for your answer. I still don' t see, why d Phi/ dX should be roughly equal to the orthogonal function divided by 'a'. Could you explain this, please?

I mean, the fact that d Phi/ dX is orthogonal to Phi, is ok. One can justify this by integration by parts, for example. I don't see, why we have to divide the orthogonal function by 'a' in order to obtain roughly d Phi/ dX
 
Derivator said:
I mean, the fact that d Phi/ dX is orthogonal to Phi, is ok.
No, it isn´t in general, e.g. take exp(ikX).
From the localization of the atomic orbitals it is clear that an orbital phi(x) and it´s shifted copy phi(x+y) become nearly orthogonal once y is of the order a. Now phi(X+y)=exp(y d/dX) phi(X)=phi(X)+(exp(y d/dX)-1) phi(X). As long as y is smaller than a, exp(y d/dX) can be replaced by 1+y d/dX (at least as far as it´s action in phi(X) ). Assuming phi to be normalized to one, <phi(X)|phi(X+y)>= 1 +y <phi(X) | d/dX phi(X)>. We know this approximation to become bad when y=a as then the left hand side is approximately 0. Hence a<phi(X) | d/dX phi(X)> is of order unity.
 
DrDu said:
No, it isn´t in general, e.g. take exp(ikX).
From the localization of the atomic orbitals it is clear that an orbital phi(x) and it´s shifted copy phi(x+y) become nearly orthogonal once y is of the order a. Now phi(X+y)=exp(y d/dX) phi(X)=phi(X)+(exp(y d/dX)-1) phi(X). As long as y is smaller than a, exp(y d/dX) can be replaced by 1+y d/dX (at least as far as it´s action in phi(X) ). Assuming phi to be normalized to one, <phi(X)|phi(X+y)>= 1 +y <phi(X) | d/dX phi(X)>. We know this approximation to become bad when y=a as then the left hand side is approximately 0. Hence a<phi(X) | d/dX phi(X)> is of order unity.

ok, for y=a:

0=<phi(X)|phi(X+a)>= 1 +a <phi(X) | d/dX phi(X)>

then

<phi(X) | d/dX phi(X)> = -1/a

But I still don't get it, thus there are two questions:

1)
why can we conclude from the last equation
<d/dX phi(X) | d/dX phi(X)> = 1/a^2 ?

2)
why can we conclude
d/dX phi(X) = phi(X+a)/a (at least roughly)
 
Last edited:
I did show you why y has to be of the order of a for the two functions ( the shifted and the unshifted orbital) to become approximately orthogonal and how this is related to the derivative of the orbital with respect to X. I also would not buy the first part of the last sentence of Messiah. Rather
d/dX phi(X) = (phi(X+a)-phi(X))/a (approximately).
Now take the norm of both sides taking into account the orthogonality of the two functions on the right and you will get the last equation of Messiah up to an unimportant factor 2.
 
ah, I see, you also get this factor 2. I thought this couldn't be correct.

From
d/dX phi(X) = (phi(X+y)-phi(X))/y

I can conclude:
<d/dX phi(X)|d/dX phi(X)>
= 1/y^2 <phi(X+y)-phi(X)|phi(X+y)-phi(X)>
= 1/y^2 (<phi(X+y)|phi(X+y)> - <phi(X+y)|phi(X)> + <phi(X)|phi(X)> - <phi(X)|phi(X+y)>)
= 1/y^2 (1-0+0+1)
= 2/y^2thank you, for your help
 
Last edited:
Take in mind that Messiah wants to give an order of magnitude estimation.
 

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