Adiabatic expansion against constant pressure

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the adiabatic expansion of an ideal gas, specifically focusing on two scenarios: one involving a reversible process and the other an irreversible process against a constant pressure. Participants are tasked with calculating final volume and temperature under these conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the application of the ideal gas law and the adiabatic process equation, questioning how to approach the second part of the problem. There is discussion about the implications of constant pressure during adiabatic expansion and the definitions of initial and final states.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the equations governing adiabatic processes and have suggested that the problem may have been misinterpreted regarding the nature of the expansion. Others have shared their calculations and reasoning, indicating a collaborative effort to clarify the problem's requirements.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the initial conditions of the gas and express uncertainty about the correct application of the adiabatic process equation when pressure is held constant. There is also mention of differing interpretations of the problem's requirements, particularly regarding the nature of the expansion.

MexChemE
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Homework Statement


a) For a certain ideal gas CP = 8.58 cal mol-1 K-1. We have 2 moles of said gas at 293.15 K and 15 atm. Calculate the final volume and temperature when the gas expands adiabatically and reversibly until it reaches a pressure of 5 atm. (Answers: V = 7.45 L; T = 227.15 K)
b) Consider the same gas, but now the expansion takes place adiabatically and reversibly against a constant pressure of 5 atm. Calculate the final pressure and volume of the gas. (Answers: V = 8.15 L; T = 248.15 K)

Homework Equations


P_1 V_1^\gamma = P_2 V_2^\gamma

The Attempt at a Solution


For a)
I can calculate V1 via the ideal gas law, which gives V1 = 3.207 L. Now I have P1, V1 and P2, so I can clear V2 from the adiabatic process equation. I have CP = 8.58 cal mol-1 K-1 and CV = 6.593 cal mol-1 K-1. Thus, γ = 1.3.
V_2 = (3.207 \ L) \left(\frac{15 \ atm}{5 \ atm} \right)^{\frac{1}{\gamma}} = 7.466 \ L
Now I can get T2 via the ideal gas law, which gives T2 = 227.48 K.

For b)
I have no idea how to tackle this part. I know CP and n remain the same, but I don't know what pressure to take as P1 and what to take as T1 to get to the correct answers provided by the textbook. Besides, if pressure is to remain constant, isn't the adiabatic process equation telling me the volume should remain constant too? As you can see, I'm a little bit lost on this one. Thanks in advance for any input!
 
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An adiabatic, reversible process follows PV^γ=Constant.

γ=Cp/Cv
Cp=Cv+R

Your P1 and T1 are ALWAYS just wherever the process started. Draw a P-V diagram and it will be obvious.
 
I am in agreement with you regarding part b. I think what they meant to say was adiabatically and irreversibly. Try the problem that way and see what you get.

Chet
 
Indeed, the problem meant irreversibly. It turned out to be an algebraic puzzle more than a thermo problem. I'm a little busy right now so I'll post my solution tomorrow. Thank you both!
 
For part b)
The initial state of the gas will be the same as in part a). P1 = 15 atm, V1 = 3.207 L and T1 = 293.15 K. The final pressure will be again P2 = 5 atm, but this time the expansion will happen irreversibly against a constant opposing pressure, p = 5 atm. We can calculate V2 as a function of T2, this will prove useful in the following procedure.
V_2 = \frac{(2 \ mol)(0.08205 \ \frac{L \cdot atm}{mol \cdot K})}{5 \ atm} T_2 = \left(0.03282 \ \frac{L}{K} \right) T_2
We are having an adiabatic process, so ΔU = -W, which equals nCVΔT = -pΔV. We plug our values into this last equation, we originally have two unknowns, V2 and T2, but we use our expression for V2 as a function of T2 and now we just have to solve for one unknown.
(2 \ mol) \left(0.27221 \ \frac{L \cdot atm}{mol \cdot K} \right)(T_2 - 293.15 K) = -(5 \ atm) \left( \left(0.03282 \ \frac{L}{K} \right)T_2 - 3.207 \ L \right)
After solving that monster we get T2 = 247.89 K = -25.26 °C. Now with this temperature we can get the final volume, which gives V2 = 8.14 L.
 
MexChemE said:
For part b)
The initial state of the gas will be the same as in part a). P1 = 15 atm, V1 = 3.207 L and T1 = 293.15 K. The final pressure will be again P2 = 5 atm, but this time the expansion will happen irreversibly against a constant opposing pressure, p = 5 atm. We can calculate V2 as a function of T2, this will prove useful in the following procedure.
V_2 = \frac{(2 \ mol)(0.08205 \ \frac{L \cdot atm}{mol \cdot K})}{5 \ atm} T_2 = \left(0.03282 \ \frac{L}{K} \right) T_2
We are having an adiabatic process, so ΔU = -W, which equals nCVΔT = -pΔV. We plug our values into this last equation, we originally have two unknowns, V2 and T2, but we use our expression for V2 as a function of T2 and now we just have to solve for one unknown.
(2 \ mol) \left(0.27221 \ \frac{L \cdot atm}{mol \cdot K} \right)(T_2 - 293.15 K) = -(5 \ atm) \left( \left(0.03282 \ \frac{L}{K} \right)T_2 - 3.207 \ L \right)
After solving that monster we get T2 = 247.89 K = -25.26 °C. Now with this temperature we can get the final volume, which gives V2 = 8.14 L.
Nicely done.

Chet
 
Thanks!
 

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