Adjust parameters of Standard Model so only photons, e-, e+ remain?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the possibility of a hypothetical universe consisting solely of photons, electrons, and positrons by adjusting the parameters of the Standard Model. It examines the implications for String Theory and its ability to model such a universe, as well as the relationship between different particle types within these frameworks.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a universe with only photons, electrons, and positrons could exist by adjusting the Standard Model parameters.
  • Others argue that String Theory has not successfully made contact with the Standard Model, and no calculations have definitively identified the particles it contains.
  • One participant notes that String Theory contains more particle states than currently observed, raising questions about its applicability to a simplified model.
  • Another participant mentions that eliminating quarks and gluons would result in a lack of strong interactions, which are essential to the Standard Model.
  • Some participants suggest that quantum electrodynamics (QED) could serve as a model for a universe with just electrons, positrons, and photons.
  • There is a concern that simplifying the particle content in String Theory may be counterproductive, as the goal is to reproduce the Standard Model's particle content.
  • One participant expresses interest in the potential consistency of a simpler model with QED and gravity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the feasibility of a universe with only certain particles, with no consensus on the implications for String Theory or the Standard Model. Disagreements exist regarding the complexity of particles and the role of various interactions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the current understanding of String Theory's relationship with the Standard Model and the implications of removing certain particle types. The discussion reflects uncertainty regarding the viability of simpler models and their alignment with established theories.

Spinnor
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Could you have a hypothetical universe with only photons, electrons, and positrons by adjusting the parameters of the Standard Model to eliminate all the "other" stuff?

If so is String Theory flexible enough to model a hypothetical universe with only photons, electrons, positrons, and Einsteins General Relativity?

Are the vibrating String Theory strings that represent a quark more complex in some sense then the String Theory strings that represent an electron?

Thanks for any help!
 
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Spinnor said:
Are the vibrating String Theory strings that represent a quark more complex in some sense then the String Theory strings that represent an electron?
String Theory is a mathematical framework that, to date, has failed to make contact with the Standard Model or any portion of it. In fact, no one has succeeded in taking a String Theory model and calculating what particles it contains.
 
String theory indeed has some indications of particles it contains. The problem of it, is that it contains way too many particle states than we have encountered...at least that's what I know.

As for the other particles, why do you ask that?
For example we know that we have mixing in quarks through the CKM matrix and this implies that we need at least 3 generations of quarks (which also allows us to insert the CP violation we observe).
A Standard Model missing quarks/gluons would lead in a world without strong interactions...The same I could say for the weak interactions...

The electrons/positrons can of course exist in a model, as well as the U(1) generators corresponding to photons, but the U(1) group is an abelian group and thus it cannot somehow absorb the extra information coming from non-abelian groups as SU(n)s
 
Last edited:
Spinnor said:
Could you have a hypothetical universe with only photons, electrons, and positrons by adjusting the parameters of the Standard Model to eliminate all the "other" stuff?
This model is called quantum electrodynamics. You just have to add electrons and positrons as particles.
 
Bill_K said:
String Theory is a mathematical framework that, to date, has failed to make contact with the Standard Model or any portion of it. In fact, no one has succeeded in taking a String Theory model and calculating what particles it contains.

I wondered if trying to explain something simpler (like electrodynamics + relativity) might make the problem a bit easier?
 
Since part of the goal of string theory is to reproduce the correct particle content of the SM, asking it to come up with a simpler but wrong particle content seems counterproductive.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
Since part of the goal of string theory is to reproduce the correct particle content of the SM, asking it to come up with a simpler but wrong particle content seems counterproductive.
I think it would be an interesting step if the result is consistent with QED (or even QED+gravity).
 

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